Amp in a Room vs Studio Recorded Tones

Pretty much, yeah. FRFR is more that than it is anything else. A sports car doesn’t play sports, but we know what it means. Just a word to generalize. It’s all forum-speak, and gets a little silly beyond that, right?
 
BBN said:
These are the days I wish Jay Mitchell was still on this forum so he could destroy posts like this with scientific fact and make people understand how little they really know about what a speaker is.
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I know what a speaker is, and a basic level on how they work.
But anything beyond that is a complete Myst.
 
Maybe you should just say raw, live type tones vs. heavily processed studio tones, in general I prefer to use rawer tones, but that new Tri-Chorus in the III is going for a very processed 80s studio sound and we all want that sound too, right?
 
It’s all just an issue of how much the frequency responses vary over a given range of measure

+/- 1.5 dB isn’t “flat” but it’s a lot flatter than +/- 3 dB, so on and so forth. I guess technically they should be called “fuller range and “flatter” response, but it’s all relative to what it’s being compared to. Other issue is different brands can use different spec, so what’s more or less flat at a given intensity level can change compared to a different product measured at a different intensity level.

I’ve had lots of guitar cabinets, lots of studio monitors, and all the major “frfr” powered monitor options (save for a xitone open back) and they all sound more the same than they do different. There is no way I could yell blindfolded if I was hearing a xitone or a clr etc. a/b them and there is a difference when you switch but I don’t think any “frfr” has enough of a sonic signature to pick it out blind.


Another interesting point is it seems on modeler forums especially there are lots of “cab in room fans”. Often times those folks seem to just post on TGP about how they hate anything that isn’t a tube amp lol...

Anyways, I get lots of people like the sound of their amp/cab in their bedroom, rehearsal space etc. I spent my teen years with a jcm800 and 4x12 in my bedroom. Mattress on floor, black painted walls, Xmas lights on the ceiling et al.; typical late 80s early 90s teen guitar player who cranked that rig everyday after school. It’s all good if that’s what your still into.

But, so many folks always seem to be on a quest for album tones. They dont want to sound like Slash live, they want to sound like the appetite album. No one wants pumpkins love tone, they want Siamese Dream wall of fuzz etc etc.

This seems ironic to me then because album tone obviously is a polished recorded tone, yet people always try to create that with their amp cab and pedals. Myself included, having spend an insane amount of money trying to find a Siamese dream fuzz, or a Gilmour big muff etc

But I’d stick those pedals in frint of my Lionheart or DRRI etc and then feel it doesn’t sound right, it doesn’t match the albums.

So it seems like a lot of people want to sound like an album, Steve Jones Anarchy tone for example, but no one wants his live tones (not that they are bad mind you) but we, collectively speaking” also want the cab in room experience, saying we prefer it to the modeler IR sound, yet the modeler IR sound is the album tones...

So what are we chasing ? Sound if a favorite album growing up? Sound of our first tube amp cranked up after school? Sound of our favorite guitarist playing live during our favorite live performance we’ve seen?

It seems it’s essentially the thril of the chase, and simply wanting to be inspired to play more guitar. I got excited about switching rigs last year, went out and bought a Lionheart and nearly every pedal I used to own, gas’in from Bjorn’s Gilmourish reviews more than anything. Every $200 fuzz being the “key” to sounding like Gilmour. Never happened lol

In the end, I think it’s often just a grass is greener issue, we play our amazing modeler and think we are missing amp in room, we play our amp and feel it doesn’t sound like the album, so on and so forth.

I can only speak for myself but my hobby isn’t just playing guitar, it’s also chasing tones, talking about guitar and gear. I probably spend as much time reading reviews, watching clips, searching eBay etc as I do playing my actual guitars.
 
You could always place 'any' tone you wish in whatever room you wished via room sim plugs such as Ocean Way or Virtual Sound Stage.
 
lqdsnddist said:
In the end, I think it’s often just a grass is greener issue, we play our amazing modeler and think we are missing amp in room, we play our amp and feel it doesn’t sound like the album, so on and so forth.
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I could not agree more. I bounce back and forth (at home) and one day I like my cab, then next day I love my FRFR, etc.
In the end, having the polished studio tone (which for the sake of the conversation we will associate with using FRFR) is what I always end up feeling is the best solution for me.

I don't subscribe to the 'you can't get amp in the room tone without a guitar cab'.
My basement PA (JBL SRX 812 tops and 718 subs) can be driven to sound like a 4x12. It moves air, it creates room reflections.
They will sound different, but not in a way that one sounds like an amp and one does not....or one pushes air, and one does not.

Especially if you are a gigging musician on a small-ish stage with a drummer playing an acoustic kit.
I have tried 1x12 guitar cabs and I have tried 1x12 FRFR cabs....and as soon as the drummer starts bashing away, any of the nuance that a guitar cab has, is gone. Once I came to terms with that. FRFR all the way.
 
Perdikament said:
I’d argue that even a live tone is really just a live IR, as it’s just a cab that is mic’d. You’re not actually hearing the cab,unless it’s a tiny room.
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Bingo. Which is why dialing in your preset to sound it's best through FRFR ensures the audience is hearing what YOU want them to hear.
 
BBN said:
I don't subscribe to the 'you can't get amp in the room tone without a guitar cab'.
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But you can't... Unless you use some sort of far field IRs.

A cab in the room is heard directly from the guitar amp, to the speaker, to your ears. Also, the biggest challenge is how it sounds relative to your physical position in relationship to the speaker

Anything using an IR is from the speaker to a mic placed closed to the speaker. This will never sound like a cab in the room, unless you're listening to that cab from less than a couple inches away.
 
lqdsnddist said:
But, so many folks always seem to be on a quest for album tones. They dont want to sound like Slash live, they want to sound like the appetite album. No one wants pumpkins love tone, they want Siamese Dream wall of fuzz etc etc.
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Understanding this point is the key to learning to love FRFR.

I've explained it numerous times, and once you wrap your brain around it, things make more sense.

Nobody but you EVER hears the same tone you are hearing when you are playing because of how you hear the cab, and you're the only person in that position (literally).

All the tones people chase are recorded. Let that sink in... That means a mic'd speaker (synonymous with an IR, for this discussion) into a mic preamp on a mixer.

Want to have Eddie's tone? Which one(s) have you ever heard? An album? A live performance? In ANY of those cases, you were not hearing his cab in the room (unless you're a very special individual;)).

Once I realized this, my whole mindset changed... Now I know that I actually have the possibility to create the same tones.
 
I really never understood this whole "amp in the room" business. With FRFR you are using Cab Simulators which are designed to give you that "amp in the room" sound. And TO ME, they do. I am am much happier playing with all the factory and after market IRs, than I would be using one cab, with one cab sound, all the time. If you are using a Guitar Cab, you disable the Cab Simulator and are getting the "sound in the room" sound. Only from one Cab. Only one. Forever.

Different ways to skin a cat, and they both sound exactly the same if you use the Cab IR, or the actual Cab, with the mics placed in exactly the same place, with the same guitar, and same cable, playing in the same room, played by the same person. This "pushing air" business is hog wash. It's what it sounds like TO YOU. Individually.

Oh, and btw, not all FRFRs sound the same. They ideally *should*, but they don't. External factors play a much bigger role than just the actual sound. The wood the enclosure is made of, the material and size of the speaker cone, the wires used to put it all together, etc. So no, just like Cabs, each FRFR system has a unique sound.
 
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