Wish Amp+cab block

[Rock Chalk]

Another reason this would be a great time saver, is if you're just wanting to audition some new amps you've never tried before.
Even if the default IR was just a run of the mill one that matched the speaker imp. curve, I bet it would be close enough to tell you
if you wanted to do some tweaking with that model.

And again, there's nothing that says you would have to use the default IR, and it's not like it's going to somehow take away the
options we have now.

 

[Tonedeaf]

Oh god. Please no.

Peavey 5150 cabs...

This may be a learning experience for you, but if you weren't aware, almost zero popular recordings with 5150 amps have been done with their corresponding cabinet. I would actually go as far as say literally zero. Not a single one.

Universally the most hated cabinets / speakers, pretty much ever.

You see where this logic doesn't work out?

So Eddie didn't use them?

 

[unix-guy]

With all due respect, man, this is exactly what I was talking about.

Please elaborate.

 

[cole lewis]

So Eddie didn't use them?

I googled it for you. As far as I can tell, he used them for one tour in the early 90’s. Then in 93-94 switched back to greenbacks.

Every thread on them I could find in general, the only people who don’t hate the speakers (usually 1 out of like 20 people) are EVH obsessed fans who think they have to use the “right” gear. (As in they are hearing with their eyes not their ears)

 

[danielworks]

You guys are concerned about the mic option for this amp+cab block, but it would be a time saver, jumping from one amp to another, at least to the most popular combination, let's say for example an AC-30 with their most used 2x12 speakers or a JCM800 with Marshall 4x12, no matter if its with the speakers A or B, or the microphone, just some practical starting point.

 

[chris]

maybe someone can just make Block Library files of all the correct amps and cabs for everyone to put in their library folders.

 

[JoKeR III]

You guys are concerned about the mic option for this amp+cab block, but it would be a time saver, jumping from one amp to another, at least to the most popular combination, let's say for example an AC-30 with their most used 2x12 speakers or a JCM800 with Marshall 4x12, no matter if its with the speakers A or B, or the microphone, just some practical starting point.

While it could be cool to have a cab automatically loaded with an amp, attempting to find a single IR for each amp model that appeals to most users is not really practical. The mic type and placement can't be casually glossed over since they have such a major impact on the resulting tone.

As has been mentioned, a practical starting point has been provided in the Amp block with the Speaker Impedance Curve type for each amp model. Another great starting point is the factory presets. Fractal has gone to great lengths to ensure their factory presets showcase just about every amp they've used to create their models with 'practical cabs' in the first 100+ presets.

 

[danielworks]

While it could be cool to have a cab automatically loaded with an amp, attempting to find a single IR for each amp model that appeals to most users is not really practical. The mic type and placement can't be casually glossed over since they have such a major impact on the resulting tone.

As has been mentioned, a practical starting point has been provided in the Amp block with the Speaker Impedance Curve type for each amp model. Another great starting point is the factory presets. Fractal has gone to great lengths to ensure their factory presets showcase just about every amp they've used to create their models with 'practical cabs' in the first 100+ presets.

What if we had a file like a backup file with presets like the first factory presets but with EVERY AMP, no freak modulations effects and etc ?
The first factory preset for example is like I said, very straightforward. The common speakers and the most common mics : 57 and 121. It's not so far from OK as a starting point :

 

[Ugly Bunny]

Please elaborate.

Sure. First of all, I will definitely concede your point about guys in my camp being traditionalists. I should have been more clear; I just mean modeler traditionalists, who espouse and advocate for the granularity and customizability and who disagree -for whatever reason- that there can or should be default cabs tied to each amp. That's all I meant by "traditionalists." lol

What I mean is that traditionalists (by my definition above), on the one hand will always advocate against a amp+cab option or default cab for each amp since you (correctly) note how there is no "correct" cab for each amp, while on the other hand, those of us that want that option will always maintain that we know there is no 100% absolutely correct cab for each amp but we would still like that option a la Helix (which now has an amp+ dual cab option) where an ideal (for whatever that may mean in this situation) cab(s) is paired with the amp

In other words, we know that we're asking for some hand-holding. We know the beauty of Fractal gear, aside from the superb programming and rock-solid performance, is in its full customizability. All we're saying is that when you go into a music store to test a combo amp, you don't typically see it without any cab or speaker (then it wouldn't be a combo, right?) and the store clerk opens up a gigantic room with 1,024 cabs and has you pick. And then, if you look at the wall of Mesa cabs, you see 35 that look IDENTICAL and you ask the guy about it, and he says each one has a different speaker or you can only use a particular mic on each one. No, the combo amp comes packaged with a default speaker; presumably which has been consciously decided upon by the manufacturer

That's all we're asking for - a quicker starting point for those of us that didn't grow up with tube amps and don't know all the different mics and don't know the difference between a greenback and a creamback and all the bad years of each speaker, and why, for instance, an IR of a 12" speaker from a 1x12 cab sounds difference from a 12" speaker from 4x12 cab.

But again, I like and respect you and enjoy this discussion. I do hope those in my camp eventually win, though

 

[Ugly Bunny]

maybe someone can just make Block Library files of all the correct amps and cabs for everyone to put in their library folders.

This would be a good start, for sure. This was the ONLY reason I bought the Austin Buddy naked amp pack. It was a bunch of presets with not a lot going on other than an amp and cab. Here, again, though, I don't want to have to switch through a bunch of presets and copy/paste, etc. I think it'd be better to just have my current preset that's set up with all the scenes and controllers and blocks and then go to an amp+cab block and just use the arrow key to cycle through all 260+ amps with their "ideal" (again, for whatever that means for that particular amp) cab.

 

[yyz67]

I do also like the idea of having something like a "cab advise for amp in current channel".
Could something like this work?:

• In the Amp block (in the background), there is a list of "cab suggestions"
• Add a filtering option in the Cab picker, similar to the color coding present for the amps
• When you open the Cab picker from the Cab block, you can select the filter for "cab suggestions" and then pick the mic / mix option you prefer.

That’s a good idea; just add an additional meta tag on the cabs that narrows the cabs down to a short list of “Suggested for the current amp channel” or whatever. Would probably be easier to implement than creating a new block or overhauling the amp or cab block…

maybe someone can just make Block Library files of all the correct amps and cabs for everyone to put in their library folders.

These all seem more workable (and flexible) than a design change to amp/cab blocks within the Axe itself. Chris's seems the most immediately helpful if someone (or a small group) would be up for putting it together (knowing it won't help for user/3rd-party IRs).

In Axe-Edit, if there was metadata associated with each amp and/or (factory) IR, these could be coordinated to prefilter or sort to the "subset of typical cabs" (w/ all mics) for Amp1 or Amp2. Of course user/3rd-party packs wouldn't work in this way without more work.

 

[unix-guy]

Sure. First of all, I will definitely concede your point about guys in my camp being traditionalists. I should have been more clear; I just mean modeler traditionalists, who espouse and advocate for the granularity and customizability and who disagree -for whatever reason- that there can or should be default cabs tied to each amp. That's all I meant by "traditionalists." lol

What I mean is that traditionalists (by my definition above), on the one hand will always advocate against a amp+cab option or default cab for each amp since you (correctly) note how there is no "correct" cab for each amp, while on the other hand, those of us that want that option will always maintain that we know there is no 100% absolutely correct cab for each amp but we would still like that option a la Helix (which now has an amp+ dual cab option) where an ideal (for whatever that may mean in this situation) cab(s) is paired with the amp

In other words, we know that we're asking for some hand-holding. We know the beauty of Fractal gear, aside from the superb programming and rock-solid performance, is in its full customizability. All we're saying is that when you go into a music store to test a combo amp, you don't typically see it without any cab or speaker (then it wouldn't be a combo, right?) and the store clerk opens up a gigantic room with 1,024 cabs and has you pick. And then, if you look at the wall of Mesa cabs, you see 35 that look IDENTICAL and you ask the guy about it, and he says each one has a different speaker or you can only use a particular mic on each one. No, the combo amp comes packaged with a default speaker; presumably which has been consciously decided upon by the manufacturer

That's all we're asking for - a quicker starting point for those of us that didn't grow up with tube amps and don't know all the different mics and don't know the difference between a greenback and a creamback and all the bad years of each speaker, and why, for instance, an IR of a 12" speaker from a 1x12 cab sounds difference from a 12" speaker from 4x12 cab.

But again, I like and respect you and enjoy this discussion. I do hope those in my camp eventually win, though

Thanks - well written and by the way, I do get the desire.

the Austin Buddy naked amp pack

This is the answer I was about to propose. It pretty much does exactly what is being asked for.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

I think this is a poor view of things.

I've explained my opinions (and that of many others) of why there is no "default" IR choice...

It has nothing to do with "traditionalists".

In fact, I'd suggest that it's traditionalists that are asking for a "correct" one.

It's kind of like asking for Amp models to load with "correct" settings for Input Drive, Master Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble, etc. There are not any, which is why they pretty much all default to 5.

IF the Fractal devices could load a Cab+Speaker without a microphone, then there might be a "correct" or "authentic" choice. Without that, there is not... The mic, mic distance, alignment, etc can drastically alter the sound. Which one is correct?

I see your side and your points too, but if there was more organizational options where we can at least narrow down what’s what, it would be a lot more intuitive. Something like the DynIR from Two Notes for me is ideal, but if I could just narrow down my IRs to “fender twin 2x12” and its many mic and placement variations in a search, that would be a big step in improvement for me.

 

[Bodde]

This is a common feature in modelers for a good reason: it's convenient. So, this seems like a reasonable request. Offering deep options like we enjoy in the Axe-FX need not be mutually exclusive with convenience and efficiency.

Excellent post! The wish makes sense especially for combos. It can be a real time saver. That doesn’t mean that you can’t change the IR. Just like you can change the speakers or cab of a real amp when you don’t like the sound of the stock or matching cab.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

This was the ONLY reason I bought the Austin Buddy naked amp pack.

This is the answer I was about to propose. It pretty much does exactly what is being asked for.

Agreed.

From Austin Buddy’s web site:

• Carefully matched IR Cab pairings with each amp from the 2048 on-board Factory Cabs and 189 Legacy Cabs.

The Naked Amps pack is the fastest path to getting where people want to be. It’s available, and is on sale currently.

[…] if there was more organizational options where we can at least narrow down what’s what, it would be a lot more intuitive. Something like the DynIR from Two Notes for me is ideal, but if I could just narrow down my IRs to “fender twin 2x12” and its many mic and placement variations in a search, that would be a big step in improvement for me.

This has been requested many times but it’s a monumental task to gather useful metadata. Parsing the file names into fields to extract the particulars is really the only solution, but every vendor uses different naming conventions so that part alone is a PITA. Then the data would need to be normalized and put into a database with a web front-end, or a HUGE spreadsheet that allowed fast searching, another big task. If those were done it’d still need a way for people to easily add their personal IRs or new vendor’s files, which complicates it even further. While I am good with regex and could write code to do it, and built many systems for similar purposes back when, I’m not going to do such a thing because I have plenty to do already.

And I have Austin Buddy’s packs, plus I research the information using Yek’s pages and the factory presets.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Agreed.

From Austin Buddy’s web site:

The Naked Amps pack is the fastest path to getting where people want to be. It’s available, and is on sale currently.


This has been requested many times but it’s a monumental task to gather useful metadata. Parsing the file names into fields to extract the particulars is really the only solution, but every vendor uses different naming conventions so that part alone is a PITA. Then the data would need to be normalized and put into a database with a web front-end, or a HUGE spreadsheet that allowed fast searching, another big task. If those were done it’d still need a way for people to easily add their personal IRs or new vendor’s files, which complicates it even further. While I am good with regex and could write code to do it, and built many systems for similar purposes back when, I’m not going to do such a thing because I have plenty to do already.

And I have Austin Buddy’s packs, plus I research the information using Yek’s pages and the factory presets.

I understand YOU won't, and probably shouldn't. SOMEONE should, because it would make the AxeFXIII that much better a product.

As an even more unrealistic alternative, how about a VST wrapper block? I'd just use WOS. OR how about a block that allows ME to (re)label and categorize my own IRs into file like folders?

In my opinion, this is the single biggest thing FAS can do to improve the ecosystem. Make this betterer.

 

[Budda]

Guys.

He just described factory presets, no?

 

[unix-guy]

Guys.

He just described factory presets, no?

Somewhat... In the first bank.

I believe I already mentioned that previously. But I'm not sure how "authentic" they are...

 

[Budda]

Somewhat... In the first bank.

I believe I already mentioned that previously. But I'm not sure how "authentic" they are...

As you mentioned, how do we judge how authentic any option is? They were selected to showcase the amps for FAS, that should have some weight.

Anyone who wants a starting point has one there - save as a template if required.

 

[unix-guy]

As you mentioned, how do we judge how authentic any option is? They were selected to showcase the amps for FAS, that should have some weight.

Anyone who wants a starting point has one there - save as a template if required.

By FAS and the beta teams

The OP is not asking for "showcase” or "starting point", he's asking for "corresponding"... Which really means he wants authentic.

But I totally get your point and if you read my comments in this thread I think you'll see that I agree.

As mentioned, the AB Naked Amps pack addresses this request very well.