Amp block X/Y switching lag?

[guitarnerdswe]

Hi!

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find anything recent on this. Is the switching between X/Y on the amp block suppose to lag, or is it something that is going to get "fixed"?

 

[chris]

It's stated in the manual that there is a short audio gap for XY of the Amp block.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Has it always been this way? This is the first time in since I got my II MKI at launch that I try to use X/Y for the amps.

 

[chris]

Yup

 

[Georgy]

I've heard that there's no lag if/when using scenes... is this true?

If that is true, how come you can do it with scenes (where you can have, if I'm wording this correctly, up to 7 scenes within one scene ? :? ) but you can't do it with X/Y amp?

 

[guitarfishbay]

You can switch between two different amp blocks with scenes and there is no perceivable lag.

If you switch the same block from X to Y you get a small short dropout.

 

[axifist]

You get this short gap, because the new amp first has to be loaded. So there's no way to get this without a gap. Probably the amp block also does a quick fade-out and fade-in when changing amps, so you get no bad noises between the ampsounds.

If you use scenes, you can run two amps simultaneously in parallel(!) and use scenes to switch between bypassed states. E.g. on scene 1 amp1 isn't bypassed, but amp2 is. That way you hear amp1. Amp2 is running, but doesn't get a signal (or gets the signal, but doesn't output anything). On scene 2 you could do the opposite and bypass amp1, but don't bypass amp2. When switching from scene 1 to scene 2 amp2 will instantly receive a signal / output the signal, which happens instantly. Amp1 on the other hand instantly doesn't get a signal anymore / doesn't output a signal anymore.

This works, since no new amps need to be loaded when switching.

 

[malmsenius]

I get these audio gaps on delays and reverbs too. Even when they're not activated!

Example: I have gate->Amp->Delay-blocks in a preset
Scene 1 has gate activated set on x, Amp activated on x, delay bypassed on y.
Scene 2 has gate activated set on x, Amp activated on x, delay activated on x.
When I switch between these two scenes I get an audio drop-out

 

[dbun]

It seems to be better on the new FW though

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I was trying to use all of my 4 amp sounds in one preset, since I use only multidelays and not regular delays, and wanted the spillover effect. Now I have it set up as one Clean/Crunch preset and one Dirty/Lead preset. It's better than 4 separate presets at least.

I wonder how much extra CPU usage it would take to get rid of the drop out? I'm all for a parameter that enables the user to remove the drop out, in trade for more CPU usage.

 

[axifist]

Scenes can also be used to switch between X and Y states of a block. Those two states don't run side by side, it's better to understand them as two states of one block. If you switch between them, the new setting first has to be loaded, e.g. an amp model.

But what you can do is to have e.g. amp1x and amp2x running and e.g. amp1 is bypassed, amp2 isn't. When changing the scene, you could bypass amp2 and make it load state y.

Or let me try it this way: -> means switching scenes, [] means bypassed

[amp1x]     amp1x      [amp1y]       amp1y
        ->          ->          ->          -> ...
 amp2x     [amp2y]      amp2y       [amp2x]

It is limited, because you cannot switch between amp1x and amp1y without a gap, but at least you CAN use 4 amps without gaps. All you have to do is to put the right amps to the right block and xy-state

 

[Shenks]

I wonder how much extra CPU usage it would take to get rid of the drop out? I'm all for a parameter that enables the user to remove the drop out, in trade for more CPU usage.

I suspect it's not about CPU load but more about loading the new data into the active memory space and reinitializing the amp which requires a finite amount of time. You would probably have to have a faster CPU and faster memory access to reduce the lag.

 

[paulmapp8306]

I use X/Y all the time. The drop out is no worse then real amps switching channels - and is some/many cases its quicker in the AFX. Cant say Ie ever had an issue with this playing live.

 

[clarky]

if you're smart with your config, there are ways to hide / mask the dropout

the starting point is to use scenes
if you only need two different amps, use 2 amp blocks, set them up in parallel / bypass=mute and switch between them on a per scene basis
there will be no dropout so the tone transition is completely seamless..

if you need 3 amps, keep one amp just for your soloing tone and never X/Y switch it.. because getting in / out of solos is where you'll be most sensitive to the dropout..
so like with the previous example, the "soloing scene" switches this amp on and mutes the other..
use the 2nd amp block for your other 2 amps and you would X/Y switch these via scenes

 

[clarky]

another alternative is to use a single amp and simply alter its tone outside of the amp block..

imagine your amp is a 5150.. you have set it up for the gain you need to riff with..
place a vol block before the amp, bypass=thru
"riff scene" the vol block is bypassed
"solo scene" the vol block is active
the vol block has a nice fat 10dB to 15dB boost set on it.. so when it's active the 5150 fires up the extra gain you need to solo with

and if the soloing tone needs a level boost and EQ change [GEQ1: bypass=thru, level=5dB <for the level boost>, cut the extreme hi's and lows to taste]
the GEQ is bypassed in the riffing scene, and active in the soloing scene

what you have here are a pair of closely related tones [cos it's the same amp] that are being sculpted for different uses [to riff and solo]..
this means that there is no X/Y switching and therefore seamless tone transitions
also, this is done with a single amp block and so there is no cpu penalty [unlike using 2 amp blocks and switching between them]

 

[guitarnerdswe]

I appreciate the help guys, but I use 4 amp sounds, and I switch between them all the time and at random. The common tricks with scenes etc won't work for me, sadly.

I use X/Y all the time. The drop out is no worse then real amps switching channels - and is some/many cases its quicker in the AFX. Cant say Ie ever had an issue with this playing live.

Either my lag is worse than others, or you are not as sensitive to it as I am. I've never had lag when using real channel switchers, the X/Y amp switching lag is definitely noticable, i measured it at around 125-200ms. First it cuts, then there is bit of a fade in.

 

[Fl7x]

Shutdown Axe-edit or pause the communications when you play.
If you make some parameter changes in a patch and switch between scenes without saving you can get lag too, so remember to save.

The gap exists, but maybe that's the culprit about your "longer" lag.

 

[vangrieg]

Either my lag is worse than others, or you are not as sensitive to it as I am. I've never had lag when using real channel switchers, the X/Y amp switching lag is definitely noticable, i measured it at around 125-200ms. First it cuts, then there is bit of a fade in.

Yeah, I also experience gaps that are too noticeable. They are nothing like the gaps with real amps (although I may have been lucky with amps).

That four-amp setup you're talking about I found unusable. Of course, that depends on particular songs, but I had to simplify my patches where transition had to be seamless.

Guess when a future 6-CPU Axe comes out this will really be a "small" gap. I didn't make any measurements but it's certainly closer to 200-300 ms than to "a few milliseconds" people often talk about.

 

[chris]

Upload a preset and all this conjecture turns into actual testing and results

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Shutdown Axe-edit or pause the communications when you play.
If you make some parameter changes in a patch and switch between scenes without saving you can get lag too, so remember to save.

The gap exists, but maybe that's the culprit about your "longer" lag.

Being connected to the computer didn't make any difference.

Yeah, I also experience gaps that are too noticeable. They are nothing like the gaps with real amps (although I may have been lucky with amps).

That four-amp setup you're talking about I found unusable. Of course, that depends on particular songs, but I had to simplify my patches where transition had to be seamless.

Guess when a future 6-CPU Axe comes out this will really be a "small" gap. I didn't make any measurements but it's certainly closer to 200-300 ms than to "a few milliseconds" people often talk about.

Clean, crunch, distortion and a lead sound. How is that unusable? Seems pretty standard to me. I find it kind of strange that people talk of switching gaps with real amps. I've never played an amp in 16 years that had any switching gap in the region of the X/Y switching. Maybe I'm just super lucky when it comes to real amps?

Upload a preset and all this conjecture turns into actual testing and results

Here you go! Try switching the X/Y state of amp block 2.