(implemented) Amp "Basic" Tab

[giantslayer]

One of the biggest challenges with the Axe FX is the learning curve. For a normal guitar player who is used to normal amps, it is very overwhelming to step beyond the "Tone" tab on the Amp block. Most of the parameters are deep tweaking / amp modification stuff that most people don't need to mess with. The problem is: mixed in with those are a handful of really important ones, like the Speaker Impedance Curve. How is a new Fractal user to know the difference? Of course, they can learn from the forum, but, ideally, the unit itself should make this more intuitive.

My idea for a solution is to hand pick the most crucial parameters and put them in a new "Basic" tab right behind the Tone tab. Naturally, this would be a duplication and those parameters would still appear in their current places as well (similar to how things are duplicated on the Advanced tab).

See my other thread for which parameters I think belong on the Basic tab.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-to-essential-amp-parameters-fw-12-03.158951/


P.S. I also recommend making Gain Enhancer the default choice for Output Compressor. New users from the real amp world really need to experience this right away vs finding out about it later or never knowing the Axe can do this.

 

[chris]

this already exists. we have "Authentic" mode which only shows the original controls on the amp. don't go to the other pages from there.

i can't tell, but if you suggested putting Speaker Impedance curve, is that considered "Basic"?

 

[giantslayer]

this already exists. we have "Authentic" mode which only shows the original controls on the amp. don't go to the other pages from there.

This would be separate from the Authentic controls.

i can't tell, but if you suggested putting Speaker Impedance curve, is that considered "Basic"?

Correct. If you pull over to that other thread, the ones I suggested are Bright Switch, Speaker Impedance Curve, Speaker Compression, and Gain Enhancer (which would technically be like 4 parameters).

 

[chris]

This would be separate from the Authentic controls.



Correct. If you pull over to that other thread, the ones I suggested are Bright Switch, Speaker Impedance Curve, Speaker Compression, and Gain Enhancer (which would technically be like 4 parameters).

hmm calling that "Basic" doesn't make sense to me. they aren't basic really.

people could do this themselves by arranging these items on the Perform tabs.

i think this comes down to opinion on what exactly is "basic" or needed. and that can vary greatly.

so we'd have Authentic tab, Ideal tab, and "Basic" tab?

 

[Rex]

The Speaker impedance curve is an advanced parameter. The only thing that makes it “really important” is the fact that you like working with it, and you like what happens when you change it.

If you want a screen with your favorite parameters on it, read up on the Performance tab.

 

[giantslayer]

The Speaker impedance curve is an advanced parameter. The only thing that makes it “really important” is the fact that you like working with it, and you like what happens when you change it.

If you want a screen with your favorite parameters on it, read up on the Performance tab.

Speaker Impedance Curve is on the Advanced tab is because it didn't fit on the Speaker tab, not because it is "advanced" in any sense or was purposefully made less accessible.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...sion-11-00-public-beta-1.155621/#post-1852722

Cliff deemed the Speaker Impedance curves to be a big enough advance in the modeling to increase the firmware number to 11.00. The intent was for people to select the model that matches the IR they are using or that sounds best to them, not to just stick with whatever the default for the amp is.

I don't need this for myself. I'm thinking about new Fractal users.

 

[chris]

Speaker Impedance Curve is on the Advanced tab is because it didn't fit on the Speaker tab, not because it is "advanced" in any sense or was purposefully made less accessible.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...sion-11-00-public-beta-1.155621/#post-1852722

Cliff deemed the Speaker Impedance curves to be a big enough advance in the modeling to increase the firmware number to 11.00. The intent was for people to select the model that matches the IR they are using or that sounds best to them, not to just stick with whatever the default for the amp is.

I don't need this for myself. I'm thinking about new Fractal users.

A big enough advance doesn’t mean it’s a necessary step though. Many firmware revisions advanced a full number for subtle things that we don’t have access to. I don’t even touch that parameter at all.

On a real amp I’ve never changed “speaker impedance curve” willingly. I don’t think it’s basic at all, nor is it absolutely necessary to change. If you do, that’s totally fine. But I don’t think it’s needed for beginners. I wouldn’t even teach that parameter in a basics course.

 

[jefferski]

There's no way to decide which "advanced" parameters any individual is going to want to have included on this "Basic" tab. You happen to like Speaker Impedance, Speaker Compression, Bright Switch, etc. I'd want Output Compression & Threshold, Input Trim, Saturation, Preamp Sag, and Variac. The next person will have others that are crucial for them. So who's to decide?

 

[giantslayer]

A big enough advance doesn’t mean it’s a necessary step though. Many firmware revisions advanced a full number for subtle things that we don’t have access to. I don’t even touch that parameter at all.

On a real amp I’ve never changed “speaker impedance curve” willingly. I don’t think it’s basic at all, nor is it absolutely necessary to change. If you do, that’s totally fine. But I don’t think it’s needed for beginners. I wouldn’t even teach that parameter in a basics course.

You can't just change the speaker impedance curve on a real amp. It is a characteristic of the speaker. Changing this independently of the speaker is only possible in digital modeling.

If you've never touched it, may I suggest that you give it a try and see how much it changes the tone?

 

[chris]

You can't just change the speaker impedance curve on a real amp. It is a characteristic of the speaker. Changing this independently of the speaker is only possible in digital modeling.

If you've never touched it, may I suggest that you give it a try and see how much it changes the tone?

I know what it does. I’m saying I don’t change it to get my tones. It doesn’t “need” to be changed for a tone to sound good. It’s an option like any other advanced parameter.

 

[giantslayer]

hmm calling that "Basic" doesn't make sense to me. they aren't basic really.

The thought behind "basic" is putting myself in the shoes of a new user, they would be drawn to that and assume it is at their level. It doesn't have to be called Basic, but it does need to have that same appeal.

i think this comes down to opinion on what exactly is "basic" or needed. and that can vary greatly.

There's no way to decide which "advanced" parameters any individual is going to want to have included on this "Basic" tab. You happen to like Speaker Impedance, Speaker Compression, Bright Switch, etc. I'd want Output Compression & Threshold, Input Trim, Saturation, Preamp Sag, and Variac. The next person will have others that are crucial for them. So who's to decide?

Thank you all for the feedback. I had to think for a minute about what would make a parameter important enough for this.
1. Parameter models an interaction that is present with the real amp.
2. It is impossible to have a "correct" or "authentic" default value. The correct value must be selected manually or adjusted to taste.
3. The effect on the tone is substantial, not subtle.

(Bright Switch wouldn't meet criteria number 2 so it wouldn't make the cut, but the others would.)

so we'd have Authentic tab, Ideal tab, and "Basic" tab?

I was thinking about the tabs on the physical unit, not Axe-Edit.

 

[chris]

I was thinking about the tabs on the physical unit, not Axe-Edit.

Same question applies because you can change between authentic and ideal on the hardware too.

I really don’t think a parameter having a substantial effect on tone is a basis of what to include on a page like this. It really comes down to opinion. I think negative feedback and sag are substantial, but I don’t think those would apply with what you‘ve laid out. Those are the only advanced things I adjust, and lately I haven’t touched them at all.

I think I understand what you’re going for here and for years people have tried to make the axe “easier”
to use. This is a good idea in general. But less things to adjust is usually easier, not more. this takes people away from the truly basic things like drive, BMT, MV, and opens up the box to things people have never heard of. In my 10+ years of experience teaching the axe, THAT is what makes the axe seem hard. once I finally convince someone to leave the advanced pages alone, step away from the axe for 3 minutes, then play with fresh ears and a default amp setting, they’re like ok that actually sounds good. What did you do? Nothing. I touched literally nothing. Ohhhhh ok.

I think trying to explain speaker impedance - for example - as a basic tone shaping element is too advanced. I think it doesn’t need to be adjusted at all to get a good tone. Can it make a substantial difference? Maybe. But so can switching to another amp and just using drive, bass, mid, treble.

A common major fallacy people do with the axe is pick an amp they like the name of, then try to make it sound like another amp. I’ve told the story numerous times, but in short someone wanted to use a Mesa, wanted to know all the knobs to turn to make it sound a certain way. After an hour of convincing they tried a Marshall type and it was instantly the sound they wanted with zero adjustment. Many people just use the wrong amp.

Other similar advanced parameters fall in the same category to me. Again I understand what you’re suggesting, but it’s heavily based on opinion.

It may be better to just suggest what you think people should add to their Global Perform Pages, which could create exactly the types of “basic” or whatever page you are describing.

 

[Rex]

@giantslayer : I get where you're coming from. But consider:

1. Parameter models an interaction that is present with the real amp.

That's almost all of them.

2. It is impossible to have a "correct" or "authentic" default value. The correct value must be selected manually or adjusted to taste.

That's almost all of them, too. Differences in component values, aging of tubes, different pot tapers... these are all part of the reason that two of the same amp can sound substantially different. Which one is "correct?"

3. The effect on the tone is substantial, not subtle.

That's a lot of them.

The thought behind "basic" is putting myself in the shoes of a new user, they would be drawn to that and assume it is at their level.

New users have enough new things to learn. I wouldn't try to draw a new user into anything deeper than the first page. You don't need to go any farther to dial in killer tones. After they've become familiar with their new gear, let them dig deeper at their own pace, in their own direction.

If you'd like to help new users by directing them to the parameters you think are important, consider posting a preset that includes a Perform tab populated with your favorite parameters, along with explanations of what they're for, so the new user doesn't have to wonder what they're for.