Am I the Only One Not Using High or Low Cuts Anymore?

trancegodz said:
Hi Rex,

Thank you so much!

It works using the up and down arrows to change the value, but I still can't make fine adjustments. It just makes the axe edit window smaller or larger when I hold down the CTRL and hit the up or down arrow. I'm on an iMac.
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Try the Command key.
 

Thanks. I was talking about fine adjustments specifically for the lo and hi cut under the first tab block for cabs. I got it now.
 
I dialed in all my presets for this new firmware using my studio monitors. Everything sounds good for recording. I just tried the same presets through both my QSC powered PA cabs and JBL powered PA cabs and with both of them the presets had too much bass, too much highs, and not enough midrange.

In the past I'd always just use the global eq and cut the lo and high end and maybe boost some of the mids for live if I needed to.

Do you also use your global eq for live playing with FRFR speakers, or do you just design your presets with the lo and hi cut you need live with FRFR speakers?

I thought if you dialed presets in on good flat studio monitors for recording that they should sound great on FRFR powered speakers as well. It's totally different. Do you guys experience the same thing? How do you deal with it?
 
trancegodz said:
I dialed in all my presets for this new firmware using my studio monitors. Everything sounds good for recording. I just tried the same presets through both my QSC powered PA cabs and JBL powered PA cabs and with both of them the presets had too much bass, too much highs, and not enough midrange.

In the past I'd always just use the global eq and cut the lo and high end and maybe boost some of the mids for live if I needed to.

Do you also use your global eq for live playing with FRFR speakers, or do you just design your presets with the lo and hi cut you need live with FRFR speakers?

I thought if you dialed presets in on good flat studio monitors for recording that they should sound great on FRFR powered speakers as well. It's totally different. Do you guys experience the same thing? How do you deal with it?
Click to expand...
If you want your presets to sound good at gig volume, you have to dial them in at gig volume. Most studio monitors can’t achieve gig volume.

Also, ther could be a big difference between how your monitors sound and how your playing-out speakers sound.
 
trancegodz said:
I dialed in all my presets for this new firmware using my studio monitors. Everything sounds good for recording. I just tried the same presets through both my QSC powered PA cabs and JBL powered PA cabs and with both of them the presets had too much bass, too much highs, and not enough midrange.

In the past I'd always just use the global eq and cut the lo and high end and maybe boost some of the mids for live if I needed to.

Do you also use your global eq for live playing with FRFR speakers, or do you just design your presets with the lo and hi cut you need live with FRFR speakers?

I thought if you dialed presets in on good flat studio monitors for recording that they should sound great on FRFR powered speakers as well. It's totally different. Do you guys experience the same thing? How do you deal with it?
Click to expand...

You mentioned that your presets have too much low/high end and lack midrange when listening via FRFR speakers compared to your studio monitors, thus my first assumption is that you're listening to the latter at a (much) higher volume than your studio monitors?
 
I typically cut the bottom 3 bands of the global EQ at OUT1 and OUT2 by ~3 dB or so depending on the room, so the guitar sits better in the mix. More critical in a boomy room. Have not loaded 11 yet.
 
Jason Scott said:
You mentioned that your presets have too much low/high end and lack midrange when listening via FRFR speakers compared to your studio monitors, thus my first assumption is that you're listening to the latter at a (much) higher volume than your studio monitors?
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The studio monitors are 70 watts each and my FRFR are 1000 watts each. I usually program my presets for recording through the studio monitors at a moderately high level for those monitors. I usually only use the FRFR at gig volume which is very loud. Last night I decided to try the new 11b presets I'd dialed in with these studio monitors and also see how they sounded through the FRFR speakers. I had to turn the Axe FX output 1 volume way down and the FRFR barely on to match the level of the studio monitors. I figured the presets would sound the same and maybe better through the FRFR. I was really surprised to hear the difference in sound.

I was able to make the FRFR sound right to me by cutting the lo and hi end with the global eq, and boosting the mids a little. I then set the global eq back to flat and tried to achieve the same result using hi and lo cuts in the cab and got real close.

It has me wondering if I should consider creating separate presets for live and recording, just use the global eq for live, or dial in the lo and hi cuts in the cab and cab preamp sections for all presets and try to get them all to sound good on both systems. I figured others here would likely have some good suggestions.

Are the lo and hi cuts for each separate cab in the cab section (the top tab) the same as the lo and hi cut in the cab preamp section? What is the benefit for using both?
 
Rex said:
If you want your presets to sound good at gig volume, you have to dial them in at gig volume. Most studio monitors can’t achieve gig volume.

Also, there could be a big difference between how your monitors sound and how your playing-out speakers sound.
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Dialing in my live presets at gig volume is what I've done in the past. I'd create the presets at a moderate volume here on the studio monitors and then have to dial them again at rehearsal through the FRFR.

I figured since both my studio monitors and FRFR claim to be flat I was fine, but apparently there is a big difference in sound.
 
trancegodz said:
The studio monitors are 70 watts each and my FRFR are 1000 watts each. I usually program my presets for recording through the studio monitors at a moderately high level for those monitors. I usually only use the FRFR at gig volume which is very loud. Last night I decided to try the new 11b presets I'd dialed in with these studio monitors and also see how they sounded through the FRFR speakers. I had to turn the Axe FX output 1 volume way down and the FRFR barely on to match the level of the studio monitors. I figured the presets would sound the same and maybe better through the FRFR. I was really surprised to hear the difference in sound.
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What you're hearing is a by-product of how humans perceive frequencies differently at different listening levels. The effect was studied by Harvey Fletcher and Wilden Munson in the 1930s and is often referred to as Fletcher Munson. They found that humans perceive midrange frequencies more prominently and low/high frequencies less prominently when listening at low(er) levels. Conversely, they found that low/high frequencies were perceived more prominently and midrange frequencies less prominently when listening at high(er) levels. At gig listening levels, high/low frequencies are going to be more prominent, so adjustments are generally necessary.

trancegodz said:
It has me wondering if I should consider creating separate presets for live and recording, just use the global eq for live, or dial in the lo and hi cuts in the cab and cab preamp sections for all presets and try to get them all to sound good on both systems. I figured others here would likely have some good suggestions.
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I'd recommend separate presets for studio and live use.

trancegodz said:
Are the lo and hi cuts for each separate cab in the cab section (the top tab) the same as the lo and hi cut in the cab preamp section? What is the benefit for using both?
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The High and Low Cut parameters displayed under each IR in the Cab block can be used to adjust the individual high/low cut level for an IR to taste, whereas the High and Low Cut parameter in the Preamp section serves to cut the highs/lows of all active IR's as a whole, simultaneously and equally. It's basically a master high/low cut if you will. If you find you have a pretty good IR mix going but still feel the overall signal has a bit too much high/low end, you could use the High/Low Cut parameter in the Preamp section of the Cab block to cut the highs/lows for all active IR's in the Cab block.
 
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trancegodz said:
.

I figured since both my studio monitors and FRFR claim to be flat I was fine, but apparently there is a big difference in sound.
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FRFR is a goal. Different speakers achieve that goal with wildly varying degrees of success. ;)
 
For some reason I especially noticed this on Firmware 11.0. I had to reduce the low cut to get back some of the bottom end. I am not able to turn it completely down to 20Hz but I reduced it from around 88Hz down to about 71Hz. Lower than that it starts to sound a little muddy.
 
I did some research and discovered that most Celestion speakers go from either 55 ,65, or 75 on the low end to 5000 on the high end. EVM12L's go from 80 to 7000. JBL's go from 50 to 8000. I haven't check for Jenson's yet. So I am currently experimenting to see how 55 for the low end and 8000 for the high end sounds. It looks like that should cover the low and high range of most guitar speakers.

I didn't use the high and low cuts before because I thought that the IR's were created to sound authentic that they would not go below or above the normal range of that speaker and cabinet combination. Same goes for the amp models. So I didn't think I'd need to cut low or high.

I have to say that cutting the low and high end does make my FRFR speakers sound better.
 
trancegodz said:
I did some research and discovered that most Celestion speakers go from either 55 ,65, or 75 on the low end to 5000 on the high end. EVM12L's go from 80 to 7000. JBL's go from 50 to 8000. I haven't check for Jenson's yet. So I am currently experimenting to see how 55 for the low end and 8000 for the high end sounds. It looks like that should cover the low and high range of most guitar speakers.
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The range is going to vary once you factor in the mic and mic position.
 
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Cutting the lows in the amp input EQ definitely helps with high gain. It can change an amp from unusable to great.

After playing with high cuts in the cab block, I'm finding I still need to keep them at or below the 10k factory setting.
 
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