Am I a Fusspot Curmudgeon for Wanting my new product NEW, and in a NEW Box?

[sprint]

I still shop for gear at my local music stores but there's a problem: They only ever seem to have one of anything, and the one they have is often dusty and used looking perhaps due to the demoing it's been thru. And often, the box for it is ratty or not even avaialable as was the case today for an item indicated to be in stock but when I got to the store to pick it up, they didn't have the box it normally comes in - I was p.o.'d and didn't bother buying the item. This seems to be the case waay too often and drives me to forget about buying local and to just buy online where I usually get a new undemo'd item in a new box.

Am I just an old curmudgeon with nothing better to complain about? My reasons seem logical to me:

• My obsession with guitar tends to result in a lot of buying amd selling and I know from experience that original packaging in good shape gets more $ when one is selling gear.
• Stuff that's been demo'd in the store has some life taken off it. Sure, the warranty starts when it's purchased, but nontheless its got miles on it and so, to me, should be sold at a "demo" price particularly for pedals /amps / pro-sound stuff (Maybe a different story for guitars as they tend to be more "personal" in a way).

Thoughts?

Curmudgeony shopper?, Stores too cheap to maintain separate demo units?, or, just the way it is?

 

[lqdsnddist]

I’d wager all of the above. I don’t think many stores can have enough inventory to have demo/floor models and then one “in the back”.

Plus, who wants to play a floor model and then get a totally different guitar you’ve never played that was new in box ?

You’d probably want to open the one your buying right ? Then what if you change your mind or return it? Now they have 2 floor models……

Given most music shops seem to have a tough time keeping the lights on , not to mention much of a selection, on I can’t see them really able to often operate on more than a one in, one out inventory model.

Last but not least, I think a case is way more valuable to a buyer than original box. Original boxes suck for shipping a guitar and that is probably what they would mail it in. As such, who cares about a box, I want to a $179 hard shell case included lol

 

[sprint]

I’d wager all of the above. I don’t think many stores can have enough inventory to have demo/floor models and then one “in the back”.

Plus, who wants to play a floor model and then get a totally different guitar you’ve never played that was new in box ?

You’d probably want to open the one your buying right ? Then what if you change your mind or return it? Now they have 2 floor models……

Given most music shops seem to have a tough time keeping the lights on , not to mention much of a selection, on I can’t see them really able to often operate on more than a one in, one out inventory model.

Last but not least, I think a case is way more valuable to a buyer than original box. Original boxes suck for shipping a guitar and that is probably what they would mail it in. As such, who cares about a box, I want to a $179 hard shell case included lol

As I mentioned, guitars are a different story - so we're talking pedals / amps / pro-sound stuff mainly. Though I kind understand the "keep the lights on" aspect, and I want to support local retail, I feel kind of taken advantage of (or at least disadvantaged) when I'm repeatedly presented new products I've purchased that look used, in used looking boxes, or without the box at all.

 

[bleujazz3]

Caveat is that when you test drive gear, you can expect that not only yourself will have test driven the gear. Only way to insure your gear is brand NIB, is to order from a website that specializes in new gear, can set up your gear to your specs before it arrives, and can ship in its shipping carton that it arrived at the retail shop from the wholesaler.

I realize that many prefer to buy from their local retailers in order to support local business, but doing so will not gurarantee that you receive an original shipping carton. Only way you could accomplish that locally is to pay for the item locally and ask them to ship it to you. Which in their view would be a tad unusual. GC might do this, but usually not your smaller Mom & Pop.

EDIT: Now that I see qualifiers, amps and effects are part of the same reason. A demoed effect may actually be sold as new without the box. Amps sold as new should provide the original shipping carton, but recall that local retailers may not have enough storage space for empty cartons in their back rooms for all their stock.

Sometimes when I've asked GC for the original carton, they say, "Sorry, we tossed that when the amp arrived because of storage constraints."

Effects sold as new (un-demoed) should have the original box, but not necessarily the shipping carton. That might be asking a bit too much.

 

[sprint]

Caveat is that when you test drive gear, you can expect that not only yourself will have test driven the gear. Only way to insure your gear is brand NIB, is to order from a website that specializes in new gear, can set up your gear to your specs before it arrives, and can ship in its shipping carton that it arrived at the retail shop from the wholesaler.

I realize that many prefer to buy from their local retailers in order to support local business, but doing so will not gurarantee that you receive an original shipping carton. Only way you could accomplish that locally is to pay for the item locally and ask them to ship it to you. Which in their view would be a tad unusual. GC might do this, but usually not your smaller Mom & Pop.

These are not even Mom and Pop oneoff stores for which I could have more understanding, to a limit.

 

[lqdsnddist]

Not exactly apples to oranges but I don’t think it’s rare for a car dealer to sell a brand new car that has a few miles on it…..

Or what about clothes ? Did the pair I jeans I bought which was nicely folded on the shelf get tried on yesterday and put back on shelf or am I first to ever wear them ?

Do they collect stuff from the fitting room and return or sell as “used” on a discount rack because someone tried it ?

 

[Hellbat]

You may want to correct your spelling of curmudgeon so the 13 year old boys can stop giggling.

The brick and mortar music stores that I deal with would order a new one in specifically for me if they only had one and packaging condition mattered to me. But that is based on decades long relationships and large sums of money spent. Usually my desire for object in hand outweighs my desire for pristine packaging though.

 

[sprint]

Not exactly apples to oranges but I don’t think it’s rare for a car dealer to sell a brand new car that has a few miles on it…..

yup - thought of that - but, you know how many miles are on it, which allows
you to make an informed decision about whether you are being asked to pay a new car price for a used car or not.

I guess tube amps, as an example, also fall into the guitars category as they can all be different and the guitarist may feel a given tube amp instance speaks to him/her - but, leaving that aside, when I've been in the market for an amp and I'm in the store playing the thing and can't help but wonder how much of a shit kicking it's taken while sitting there for who knows how many months, but I buy it any way with no box, no tags, extra dust etc - then later happen to see examples of the same amp in nice branded packaging with all the nice tags on it etc... well - I feel disheartened.

 

[sprint]

You may want to correct your spelling of curmudgeon so the 13 year old boys can stop giggling.

The brick and mortar music stores that I deal with would order a new one in specifically for me if they only had one and packaging condition mattered to me. But that is based on decades long relationships and large sums of money spent. Usually my desire for object in hand outweighs my desire for pristine packaging though.

Yikes - spelling corrected lol!

 

[bleujazz3]

These are not even Mom and Pop oneoff stores for which I could have more understanding, to a limit.

Sure, I hear that. Are these larger music store retailers? Just trying to determine what type of store we're speaking about so as to provide a better reply.

Not exactly apples to oranges but I don’t think it’s rare for a car dealer to sell a brand new car that has a few miles on it…..

Or what about clothes ? Did the pair I jeans I bought which was nicely folded on the shelf get tried on yesterday and put back on shelf or am I first to ever wear them ?

Do they collect stuff from the fitting room and return or sell as “used” on a discount rack because someone tried it ?

Of course not, a car dealer unless you've ordered from the dealer and the car arrives brand new, is expected to have some test drive miles from people who tried the car while it was at the dealership. If you've ordered brand new and the car arrives at the dealership without anyone test driving, it, you can expect several miles (typically 5 or 10 miles) for the dealership to secure registration, put gas in the tank, insure all functions/parts work correctly.

Clothing is a different story. In-store clothing store stock has dressing rooms where people typically try on clothes before they buy to insure proper fit. You are not likely the first person to try on a pair of jeans when you buy them off the rack. Fitting room clothing is typically gathered and returned to stock and advertised as new clothing until it it is sold and brought home. Clothing that is purchased, brought home, tags removed and returned may be recycled to the warehouse as returned merchandise. Returned clothing may be discounted as pre-owned, or clearance, depending on store policy.

(Used to work in a clothing store some years ago)

 

[sprint]

I've been largely ok with it over the years and not overly fussy (I've worked in retail so I know what they can be dealing with), but it's gotten to the point lately where it seems nothing avaiable in stock locally is unopened in original packaging, so, for stuff like pedals for example, where they are all the same, I feel like, why should I support local and pay new for a demo'd pedal in a ratty or no box when I can buy it pristine from amazon in untouched by human hands packaging at the same price delivered free (I spent $3 in gas today to be offered a demo item with no box at full retail price - cmon!)

 

[Moondog Wily]

I don't think there is a problem with the way you feel! If I am paying NEW pricing, I want NEW!! Not dusty, demo'd, no packaging!!! I also understand that small shops have constraints, but they also are able to charge higher prices than the big guys, and the "have a demo available" should be in their pricing as part of the cost of doing business IMO! I am sure some of the big manufacturers give their authorized retailers, demo versions or discounts on an item so that it can be used as a demo without having to reach into the retailers pocket, but boutique amps or small company pedals/electronics are certainly going to be exceptions to that kind of logic! I am certainly not going to "use" the shop to try stuff and then buy from a big retailer at a discount, but if an item has already been tried and is left out to collect dust, instead of returned to it's original packaging for storage, that is just a big no for me (unless I am offered a discount). Try it, if you like it, ask them to order you one and deliver it unopened with all factory seals intact! Should be the same price right?

 

[Budda]

What store?

 

[JoKeR III]

I have a hard time paying new price for a floor demo, or even one in the display case. If it's shown to be "in stock" it should be new in the box as far as I'm concerned. When it comes to guitar gear especially, you don't know how often it's been 'tried' and how it's been handled. If they insist it's the last one, I'll ask for a 20% discount since it's a floor model. Sometimes I get it, other times I don't and usually walk out without it.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Certainly doesn't seem to be asking too much to want the box. If it's gear that has a branded box, it is part of the product imo. For the guitars I've bought new, the box wasn't branded, but how hard is it to put the case into it, and keep it stored in the back in that manner? Heck, it would keep the case in new condition, as stock gets moved around back there.

As a kid, I used to collect Lionel 6464 box cars. If the guy selling at the train meet didn't have the original box, I walked. Everything collectible that has its original box is worth more.

I don't know what a new price is, because I always haggle. Even when I bought my first Mesa amp, (which if you know about their policies, they didn't allow their vendors to give discounts), they found a way to knock off the sales tax. And it wasn't even out on the floor.

And I too would be annoyed if I called ahead and was told the item was new, but there was no box, unless it was a guitar with no branding on the box.

 

[sprint]

Certainly doesn't seem to be asking too much to want the box. If it's gear that has a branded box, it is part of the product imo. For the guitars I've bought new, the box wasn't branded, but how hard is it to put the case into it, and keep it stored in the back in that manner? Heck, it would keep the case in new condition, as stock gets moved around back there.

As a kid, I used to collect Lionel 6464 box cars. If the guy selling at the train meet didn't have the original box, I walked. Everything collectible that has its original box is worth more.

I don't know what a new price is, because I always haggle. Even when I bought my first Mesa amp, (which if you know about their policies, they didn't allow their vendors to give discounts), they found a way to knock off the sales tax. And it wasn't even out on the floor.

And I too would be annoyed if I called ahead and was told the item was new, but there was no box, unless it was a guitar with no branding on the box.

Mostly, what I've run into wrt to pedals and pro-sound gear is a very used looking box. The no box situation I've seen mostly with amp/cabs and I can kind of see a reason for this as the boxes for those items are big and hard to store etc - however, I was lucky enough to get the last amp head I bought (H+K) previously unopened in its original quite nice packaging and I realize from that, that one is taking a hit on future private resale not to have that packaging even on an amp head.

The no box scenario with pedal / pro-sound type items like I had today happens often when they've lost the box - which happens because there is so often only one in stock and that one is the demo item and separated from its box. So the normal routine, if you're buying a pedal type item, is that you will get the one and only that's there (hopefully not overly demo'd, dropped, mishandled...) and then you'll watch them look for the box for however many minutes (last two purchases, this has happened for me - previous time I waited 15-20 minutes while they looked for the box - today they gave up looking after about 5-10 minutes and told me - sorry no box. Attitude seems odd also - like they are miffed that I'm insisting on a box or asking why the box looks 10 years old...

Good point about supplied demo items. I've never bought boutiquey stuff - seems like demos for common items should be provided to retailers - actually I recall there used to be a pedal display (Digitech iir) that let customers switch though any number of demo pedals, then, upon purchase, you'd get an unopened one (or for bigger chain stores, ya, why can't head office offer internal discounts to a single store to purchase demos. To me, demos are different than a returned item placed back on the shelf though I've had bad experiences with these also (missing pieces, manufacturer mail in rebates / promos already claimed...)).

For those asking which store? I don't really want start calling out specific ones - it seems a pretty wide spread effect these days so I don't see how which store is relevant. I was just more wantlng to check my own level of curmudgeaty against that of other gear addictied guitar players, and maybe blow off a little steam about it, which I have now done - ahhhh! - I feel much better - thankyou for listening.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I understand the desire for “untouched”, but what I’ve noticed lately is I don’t even care about whatever is out there, The tools we have at hand can create it. I don’t need more.

There is so much power and capability in the modelers that we haven’t even begun to figure out what they can do. And they get more powerful with each revision. And if we run into a dead end we only have to show a good use-case and it will show up.

 

[bleujazz3]

I don't think there is a problem with the way you feel! If I am paying NEW pricing, I want NEW!! Not dusty, demo'd, no packaging!!! I also understand that small shops have constraints, but they also are able to charge higher prices than the big guys, and the "have a demo available" should be in their pricing as part of the cost of doing business IMO! I am sure some of the big manufacturers give their authorized retailers, demo versions or discounts on an item so that it can be used as a demo without having to reach into the retailers pocket, but boutique amps or small company pedals/electronics are certainly going to be exceptions to that kind of logic! I am certainly not going to "use" the shop to try stuff and then buy from a big retailer at a discount, but if an item has already been tried and is left out to collect dust, instead of returned to it's original packaging for storage, that is just a big no for me (unless I am offered a discount). Try it, if you like it, ask them to order you one and deliver it unopened with all factory seals intact! Should be the same price right?

Agreed. The problem with your last sentence is that retail stores count on closing deals on their sales if the price is acceptable to the buyer. For that reason alone retail music stores that demo gear are prepared to offer you a deal that you can negotiate if you choose. And perhaps that's it. Most advertisers on TV, in magazines, sales flyers, online, offer you a wide choice, but it's up to you to make a good decision as to whether you need that particular item or not. Realize that by contrast the cautionary tale most everywhere in TV media are examples of paid actors making bad decisions that cost them dearly, that often influences how we think and act. That is why I strongly suggest to be knowledgeable of what you take in, recreation and entertainment-wise. Otherwise, you might end up paying for something you didn't need.

I understand the desire for “untouched”, but what I’ve noticed lately is I don’t even care about whatever is out there, The tools we have at hand can create it. I don’t need more.

There is so much power and capability in the modelers that we haven’t even begun to figure out what they can do. And they get more powerful with each revision. And if we run into a dead end we only have to show a good use-case and it will show up.

Again, agreed. The alternative might be when you're looking at guitars that input into our devices. Most of us on this forum agree that FAS has created a desirable and useful product, with high quality output. The fact remains, not everyone can afford FAS. Most people will pay for what their eyes have locked onto and the desire for is strong. The problem is, some people do the same thing with things they want but can't afford, and crime results. The clue is to not let that desire take hold, otherwise you could end up paying for it, one way or another. This is the premise for most TV crime stories, where life imitates art. (Sorry for the sermon, just relating to why I don't want/need another guitar or effect just now...)

 

[pauly]

I’m with you,
I don’t want anyone to have touched anything I buy new. If I buy a demo product, I’d expect it to have a little use and be priced accordingly. New, I want to peel off the sticky plastics myself!
Tha nks
Pauly

[

QUOTE="sprint, post: 2286438, member: 9358"]
I still shop for gear at my local music stores but there's a problem: They only ever seem to have one of anything, and the one they have is often dusty and used looking perhaps due to the demoing it's been thru. And often, the box for it is ratty or not even avaialable as was the case today for an item indicated to be in stock but when I got to the store to pick it up, they didn't have the box it normally comes in - I was p.o.'d and didn't bother buying the item. This seems to be the case waay too often and drives me to forget about buying local and to just buy online where I usually get a new undemo'd item in a new box.

Am I just an old curmudgeon with nothing better to complain about? My reasons seem logical to me:

• My obsession with guitar tends to result in a lot of buying amd selling and I know from experience that original packaging in good shape gets more $ when one is selling gear.
• Stuff that's been demo'd in the store has some life taken off it. Sure, the warranty starts when it's purchased, but nontheless its got miles on it and so, to me, should be sold at a "demo" price particularly for pedals /amps / pro-sound stuff (Maybe a different story for guitars as they tend to be more "personal" in a way).

Thoughts?

Curmudgeony shopper?, Stores too cheap to maintain separate demo units?, or, just the way it is?
[/QUOTE]

 

[fractalz]

I still shop for gear at my local music stores but there's a problem: They only ever seem to have one of anything, and the one they have is often dusty and used looking perhaps due to the demoing it's been thru. And often, the box for it is ratty or not even avaialable as was the case today for an item indicated to be in stock but when I got to the store to pick it up, they didn't have the box it normally comes in - I was p.o.'d and didn't bother buying the item. This seems to be the case waay too often and drives me to forget about buying local and to just buy online where I usually get a new undemo'd item in a new box.

Am I just an old curmudgeon with nothing better to complain about? My reasons seem logical to me:

• My obsession with guitar tends to result in a lot of buying amd selling and I know from experience that original packaging in good shape gets more $ when one is selling gear.
• Stuff that's been demo'd in the store has some life taken off it. Sure, the warranty starts when it's purchased, but nontheless its got miles on it and so, to me, should be sold at a "demo" price particularly for pedals /amps / pro-sound stuff (Maybe a different story for guitars as they tend to be more "personal" in a way).

Thoughts?

Curmudgeony shopper?, Stores too cheap to maintain separate demo units?, or, just the way it is?

Think of it this way - wouldn't you want to be able to sell your "lightly used", "in a smoke free house", etc. gear? Online shopping has changed the physical store landscape. (Sorry, I worked at Amazon and helped make that happen). Brick-and-mortar stores are holding much less inventory since their sell-through has been reduced.

So, I'd say, expect to get "floor model" or "open box" gear from physical stores. If you want pristine boxes and gear, shop online and endure the wait.

I feel bad for all the local stores being crushed and the poor earth dealing with the half-dozen trucks appearing at my door each delivering a small item, but, here we are...