almost a month in - still feeling like a newb - EMG 81/85 question

Spawn2031

Spawn2031

Inspired
Hey guys, so yeah.. 1 month in and still loving this thing more and more every day. I have got a GREAT collection of patches for my main guitar which uses passive pickups. The problem that I am having is when I switch to my Hellraiser with Active EMGs 81/85 I get a lot of instant feedback when I'm not playing. That patches that I am using are the both the factory Mark Day HBE and Freemen's version of it as well. Both sound stellar (Freemens is better, sorry Mark) on my passive pups. What I want to do is just make different scenes for the different guitars so I have essentially the same sound but I'm having a hard time getting rid of that feedback. Anyone else had issue like this? I should probably mention that this is at live volumes. Axe output is usually set to about 1/3rd the way up.
 
The higher output EMG are probably just smacking the amp with more gain, hence the feedback.

Lots of ways to deal with that. If you want to keep the same overall patches, you could use X/Y to set up the same amp optimized for each pickup, just swap X/Y when you swap guitars.

Another option might be to put a volume block in front of the amp that would reduce the level when it is activated (the inverse of the usual boost usage.) Just kick it when when changing guitars. That advantage of this method be to let you keep everything else (like scenes, effects, etc.) the same within the patch.

Or just duplicate/optimize the patches for each guitar.

TT
 
Tommy Tequila said:
The higher output EMG are probably just smacking the amp with more gain, hence the feedback.

Lots of ways to deal with that. If you want to keep the same overall patches, you could use X/Y to set up the same amp optimized for each pickup, just swap X/Y when you swap guitars.

Another option might be to put a volume block in front of the amp that would reduce the level when it is activated (the inverse of the usual boost usage.) Just kick it when when changing guitars. That advantage of this method be to let you keep everything else (like scenes, effects, etc.) the same within the patch.

Or just duplicate/optimize the patches for each guitar.

TT
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Ok, nothing makes you feel more like a newb when something you think should be so easy to fix seems so elusive. It's been a bit since I first posted this because it's been a bit since I could get back into an environment where I could crank things up and test them. What you are saying completely makes sense as to why I am getting the feedback. If I roll back my guitar volume a bit the feedback stops but I also lose some of the tone (as expected). I have tried messing with the input trim on the amp model on this, one would think this would mimic me turning my volume knob down but the feedback is still there as soon as I take my hands off the fret board. I really don't want to lose the overall tone of these patches.

I did decide to also check out some of the other patches that I commonly use with my passive pickups and they also have a feedback issue when using the EMGs. Really not surprised there. I was reading through the manual this morning (great way to start the day at work, lol) and it dawned on me... should I be adjusting the global input level for the instrument jack? Set this to a level that tames my EMGs and then just raise the output level on the patches that are set for my passives? But then again I keep thinking it is something that I should be able to easily adjust in the amp model because, when I start a new patch with just an unmodified amp and cab, the feedback is gone. I know eventually, building my own patches is the best solution to this. But my time in an area where I can adjust at live volume is limited and I don't want to hold my band up waiting for me to dial something in from scratch when I know I have a killer sound right in front of me...

**Edit: Just realized that the new firmware has come out so i guess I should mention that I am not using Q2... yet
 
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High gain plus high volume plus EMG 81/85 = feedback!!!
There are ways to lessen though,
You can put in a gate, put a volume block before the amp, turn down the gain, turn down input trim, turn down master volume, if you have a compressor in there you can turn that off... Pretty much anything that reduces gain and compression will help.
Think of it like a real amp... What would you change if you were getting feedback on a real amp?
 
Just about all my guitars have EMG,s .......cause I luvvvvv mmmmm.....the answer to your question....use the noise gate....at the front of the Grid and set it global.....that be what I do works faster and better than Lassie did on her prom night.........
 
lwknives said:
High gain plus high volume plus EMG 81/85 = feedback!!!
There are ways to lessen though,
You can put in a gate, put a volume block before the amp, turn down the gain, turn down input trim, turn down master volume, if you have a compressor in there you can turn that off... Pretty much anything that reduces gain and compression will help.
Think of it like a real amp... What would you change if you were getting feedback on a real amp?
Click to expand...

Well, the first two things I would try would be the drive and (if the amp had one) the input seeing as turning the volume down on my guitar takes care of it. With this particular patch though (Freman's version of Mark Day's HBE) the input trim has very little effect on the problem and turning down the gain to much, obviously will effect the aggressiveness of the sound which I don't want to do too much. There is a compressor in that chain, which I disabled and it was still screaming.

cyberk9 said:
Just about all my guitars have EMG,s .......cause I luvvvvv mmmmm.....the answer to your question....use the noise gate....at the front of the Grid and set it global.....that be what I do works faster and better than Lassie did on her prom night.........
Click to expand...

On this particular patch, I am using the built in noise gate. Threshold is around 50 and ratio is about 4 if I remember correctly. This keeps it nice and quiet for me, what else should I mess with in the gate settings to control unwanted feedback? The level? I tried that one too to no avail.

I have not tried a combination of all of these yet or placing a volume block in front of the amp. Basically all the mentioned parameters above I adjusted down pretty dramatically just to see if it had an impact. If it didn't I put it right back to where it was. Totally banging my head on this one (and not in a good way!). I haven't owned an actual amp in years upon years. What I would do to control feedback in previous modellers is not working here which tells me I have to be missing something small and just don't know where to look.
 
Spawn2031 said:
Well, the first two things I would try would be the drive and (if the amp had one) the input seeing as turning the volume down on my guitar takes care of it. With this particular patch though (Freman's version of Mark Day's HBE) the input trim has very little effect on the problem and turning down the gain to much, obviously will effect the aggressiveness of the sound which I don't want to do too much. There is a compressor in that chain, which I disabled and it was still screaming.



On this particular patch, I am using the built in noise gate. Threshold is around 50 and ratio is about 4 if I remember correctly. This keeps it nice and quiet for me, what else should I mess with in the gate settings to control unwanted feedback? The level? I tried that one too to no avail.

I have not tried a combination of all of these yet or placing a volume block in front of the amp. Basically all the mentioned parameters above I adjusted down pretty dramatically just to see if it had an impact. If it didn't I put it right back to where it was. Totally banging my head on this one (and not in a good way!). I haven't owned an actual amp in years upon years. What I would do to control feedback in previous modellers is not working here which tells me I have to be missing something small and just don't know where to look.
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I'll have check when I get home but i believe my threshold is around the high 60's.......I usually adjust the threshold until there is total quiet until my hand touches the strings....that means holding the guitar with nothing on the strings and it's dead quiet......until I touch the strings......other than that how strong is your input make sure there is no clipping....
 
I use high gain amps and don,t have this problem can you....show us the preset...also amp setting and your gate settings.....the clipping did have an impact on my cleans...and it would sound pretty bad on high gains...I ran into clipping after a firmware update...probably because I was at the max level already....if that is not the issue try experimenting with the MV level that shouldn't affect the gain and may get it under control somewhat...leave no stone unturned when troubleshooting.....imho
 
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I would try turning down the gain until you get the feedback to where you like it and see if you still have enough grit and aggressiveness.
You could also set the compressor block mode to dynamics and increase the dynamic range into the amp and compensate by reducing the comp block level but that kind of defeats the purpose of using EMGs.
I have that same guitar and when I use it with my real dual rec at gig level it feedbacks like crazy when the gain is where I like it. That's for blues too! I love it though!! That guitar reacts with sound waves in an awesome way!!! But if you want to get rid of feedback you will need to reduce gain or use some form of gate or dynamics.
 
Also, that guitar is a very dark guitar which makes it sound like there is less gain than there really is!
You might try boosting the highs into the amp and then compensate by reducing gain.
 
lwknives said:
I would try turning down the gain until you get the feedback to where you like it and see if you still have enough grit and aggressiveness.
You could also set the compressor block mode to dynamics and increase the dynamic range into the amp and compensate by reducing the comp block level but that kind of defeats the purpose of using EMGs.
I have that same guitar and when I use it with my real dual rec at gig level it feedbacks like crazy when the gain is where I like it. That's for blues too! I love it though!! That guitar reacts with sound waves in an awesome way!!! But if you want to get rid of feedback you will need to reduce gain or use some form of gate or dynamics.
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Ok, I will try all of that and see where that gets me. I wont be back to my live fire zone until sunday so I get 2 days to sit and stew about it lol. I don't want to get rid of feedback entirely. I do like feedback as long as I can control when it comes and goes.
 
You already got invaluable input in the previous responses. My 2 cents... I also love the EMGs, most of my guitars have them, and it's very true that not only the output level, but the whole response is different than with passives.

My suggestion would be to have a separate patch for the EMG's and check the core sound first: make sure you're happy with the tone, that you only need the drive/saturation/volume that you need; if you're using a clean boost, experiment with a few others since some of them are less noisy and can give you an equivalent tone. Only then start adding the noise gate and such to keep things quiet. Also, how's the floor noise level? I mean when you're not playing but you're muting the strings (or are you getting feedback even in this case?).
 
kengtin said:
You already got invaluable input in the previous responses. My 2 cents... I also love the EMGs, most of my guitars have them, and it's very true that not only the output level, but the whole response is different than with passives.

My suggestion would be to have a separate patch for the EMG's and check the core sound first: make sure you're happy with the tone, that you only need the drive/saturation/volume that you need; if you're using a clean boost, experiment with a few others since some of them are less noisy and can give you an equivalent tone. Only then start adding the noise gate and such to keep things quiet. Also, how's the floor noise level? I mean when you're not playing but you're muting the strings (or are you getting feedback even in this case?).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what the plan is essentially. A 2nd version of my passive pickup presets setup for the EMGs or a 2nd scene. Whichever works out best. I do really like my EMGs. 2 out of 3 guitars have the 81/85 combo and I always loved them. The odd thing was that the day I received my Axe I was playing my passive pup guitar and that just happened to get plugged in first. Everything ended up getting set up with the passive pickups as the benchmark per se. Might be why a lot of folks say that the factory presets dont work for them if they are using active pups.

Noise floor level is pretty crappy actually. To keep things perfectly quiet I have to turn up the threshold to about 45 to kill off any buzzing. The feedback I am trying to eliminate starts literally as soon as I stop muting the strings. As long as my hands are on them, it's quiet. Take em off, no notes hit yet.. its at full squeal in 1/2 a second.
 
my Gate settings are threshold -65.8db ratio 4.32 attack 27.63 release 29.38 level 0.0 Input Z set to auto effect type set to classic...............and it never makes a peep....unless your gain is set to MELT FACES......that Input gate should quiet any amp in the AXE down from feedback....adjust to taste...I do not use Single Coils very often but when I did they squealed so I adjusted the Gate to compensate for them...hope I helped you some...good luck
 
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I laughed out loud a little bit when I read the threads title.......Almost a whole month?:D...and you haven't mastered this simple little black box yet...:eek:.............3-1/2 years for me, and I'm just scratching the surface.

Interesting thread though, and some good advice too.
 
Moke said:
I laughed out loud a little bit when I read the threads title.......Almost a whole month?:D...and you haven't mastered this simple little black box yet...:eek:.............3-1/2 years for me, and I'm just scratching the surface.

Interesting thread though, and some good advice too.
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Yup, same here. My tip is that when you first get it don't try to change everything. Just stick to treating things like they were a real amp and things should be pretty fine. With Emg's you will have to use less gain like said already. But the way this thing is built it makes it very easy to over do it on the gain by a mile. You really need way less gain than you think you do.
 
Moke said:
I laughed out loud a little bit when I read the threads title.......Almost a whole month?:D...and you haven't mastered this simple little black box yet...:eek:.............3-1/2 years for me, and I'm just scratching the surface.

Interesting thread though, and some good advice too.
Click to expand...

Ok, now it's a month and a half and I'm not an expert yet?? Sheesh, what a slacker. I swear this was the worst time to leave my rig setup at band practice. Can't get to it to try these suggestions AND a new F/W release came out, lol
 
You can try a gate right after the amp block. Gate at the front will deal with guitar noise, gate after the amp black kills everything else. So I have read on here before I use this trick on a 5150 patch that gets a little noise. Ymmv.
 
So after screwing around with this today, I finally killed the unwanted feedback by setting the input trim all the way down. That kept the crunchy sound I like from that HBE but made it useable. Thanks a ton for all the help full suggestions! The learning continues
 
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