Wish Allow user assignment of midi channel AND cc#

rodzimguitar68

Fractal Fanatic
The Axe FX III has so many parameters that can be midi controlled, but we only have two features that respond to values within their CC - scenes and channels. Yes, the other midi controlled parameters respond to 0-63 for bypass, 64-127 for engage.....while others respond to expression pedal-like sweeping from 0-127........that is not what I'm talking about though.

Can Fractal develop something similar to this:

Example: if I configure CC 54 for delays, then send values I've assigned, to achieve a desire bypass/engage state:

CC 54 - value 1 (engage delay one), value 11 (bypass delay one)
CC 54 - value 2 (engage delay two), value 12 (bypass delay two)

Etc.........

By stacking similar effects under one CC number assignment, 128 CC's will stretch a lot further.

I suppose, quite literally, a person could use one CC number, to control the engage/bypass state of 64 effect blocks - we just need the freedom to assign the values for on or bypass for every midi controllable thing.

Thanks,

Rodney
 
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What about listening on multiple MIDI channels instead? One could threat the Axe-Fx III as a full rig, gaining up to 16*127 CC messages.
 
This is brilliant....

+1

I think the problem with listening on multiple MIDI channels, as far as my needs are concerned using the FCB1010, is that I would have to program the FCB1010 to send on different channels which I don't think is nearly as straightforward as just choosing a value.

It does seem like a huge lost opportunity to only have two arbitrary values 0-63 and 64-127 usable in the Axe Fx. It's nice knowing that that I can safely assign 127 as the value for "on" and 0 for the value for "off," but I would trade that convenience for the exponentially increased functionality.
 
The common way to handle this is to use different MIDI channels.

My thought on how to do this would be rather than having to set the channel and CC number would be to have all the bypass CCs under one channel, then all the channel CCs on another channel, etc. This way you could make the bypass and channel CC the same but they would just be on different MIDI channels.

IOW, there would be a Bypass CC MIDI Channel parameter and a Channel CC MIDI Channel parameter.
 
The common way to handle this is to use different MIDI channels.

My thought on how to do this would be rather than having to set the channel and CC number would be to have all the bypass CCs under one channel, then all the channel CCs on another channel, etc. This way you could make the bypass and channel CC the same but they would just be on different MIDI channels.

IOW, there would be a Bypass CC MIDI Channel parameter and a Channel CC MIDI Channel parameter.

I have quite a few units in my rack, using many channels, but yes, I have spare and could implement this into my programming. I just assumed, by virtue of you leaving the CC's up to each user, that also opening up values for bypass/on, wouldn't be difficult -- but I heartily admit I have no idea of the technical challenges.

I'm simply putting it out there that I've run out of CC's, and there are gobs of other things I'd like to assign a CC to, but I have none left!!!!

Thanks

EDIT: Can we get some method of printing a report of our CC assignments, so we can use that to program our midi pedal systems, and also to verify we aren't double dipping any of them?
 
I'm simply putting it out there that I've run out of CC's, and there are gobs of other things I'd like to assign a CC to, but I have none left!!!!
If you are using a so advanced programmer, looking into sending Sysex messages too could solve the issue.
 
The trouble with CC's is that they are used both for continuous controllers, setting values and on/off commands.
When using them for the latter, you're actually wasting 125 commands per CC#.
If you look at the combination of CC# and it's value:
001-001 could be an effect on
001-002 could be to turn that effect off
The rest of the values 001-003 to 001-127 are useless.
This is thee result of the Midi system not being fully compatible with today's powerful systems like the Axe-fx.
127 CC's used to be plenty but now it just isn't enough.
Cliff's solution is a logical one and would keep things simple.
When using a table with 001-001 going to 127-127, you would get lots more possibilities but way to much for what we (now) need and it would be a lot more complicated.
Furthermore, ON/OFF commands, when using different channels, could be put on a different page which again would make things simpler.
 
The trouble with CC's is that they are used both for continuous controllers, setting values and on/off commands.
When using them for the latter, you're actually wasting 125 commands per CC#.
If you look at the combination of CC# and it's value:
001-001 could be an effect on
001-002 could be to turn that effect off
The rest of the values 001-003 to 001-127 are useless.
True enough.

I suppose what you could do is have each CC# represent 64 different effects. If you send an even number, it means toggle an effect OFF; if you send an odd number, it means toggle an effect ON. The selection of WHICH effect you were toggling was determined by dividing the number by 2 and rounding down. (Effects would be numbered #00 through #63.)

With a system like that, the value 000 would mean Toggle Effect #00 to OFF. And 001 would mean Toggle Effect #00 to ON.

Value 126 would mean Toggle Effect #63 to OFF; 127 would mean Toggle Effect #63 to ON.

So, as long as you went in to the Axe FX and assigned each of your effects a number from #00 to #63, you could handle all of those 64 effects' bypass states with a single CC#.

I know that guitarists often aren't terribly happy doing math, but a system like this isn't too bad. All it requires is that a person know the difference between even and odd numbers, and be able to divide by 2. Heck, even a drummer might be able to do it! :D
 
True enough.

I suppose what you could do is have each CC# represent 64 different effects. If you send an even number, it means toggle an effect OFF; if you send an odd number, it means toggle an effect ON. The selection of WHICH effect you were toggling was determined by dividing the number by 2 and rounding down. (Effects would be numbered #00 through #63.)

With a system like that, the value 000 would mean Toggle Effect #00 to OFF. And 001 would mean Toggle Effect #00 to ON.

Value 126 would mean Toggle Effect #63 to OFF; 127 would mean Toggle Effect #63 to ON.

So, as long as you went in to the Axe FX and assigned each of your effects a number from #00 to #63, you could handle all of those 64 effects' bypass states with a single CC#.

I know that guitarists often aren't terribly happy doing math, but a system like this isn't too bad. All it requires is that a person know the difference between even and odd numbers, and be able to divide by 2. Heck, even a drummer might be able to do it! :D
While this could work, many midi controllers wouldn't be usable as they only know how to "toggle" a CC with 0/127.
 
While this could work, many midi controllers wouldn't be usable as they only know how to "toggle" a CC with 0/127.
I think it’s important to maintain compatibility with the many limited-ability controllers out there.
 
The common way to handle this is to use different MIDI channels.

My thought on how to do this would be rather than having to set the channel and CC number would be to have all the bypass CCs under one channel, then all the channel CCs on another channel, etc. This way you could make the bypass and channel CC the same but they would just be on different MIDI channels.

IOW, there would be a Bypass CC MIDI Channel parameter and a Channel CC MIDI Channel parameter.

Cliff, to appease those with less capable midi controllers, perhaps you could add a Midi channel column, to the menus for midi CC assignment. Those persons with less capable midi controllers, could keep everything on one midi channel, and in essence, use the device like we currently do. However, those with more capable midi controllers, could split the channel assignments into a different midi channel, so that we could use more of the 128 CC # on the primary midi channel?

This is important (to me) and I hope you will consider implementing it in a way that doesn't orphan some of the users, but allows others to more fully exploit and take advantage of the increased CC parameter capabilities of the Axe III.

Thanks
 
Cliff, to appease those with less capable midi controllers, perhaps you could add a Midi channel column, to the menus for midi CC assignment. Those persons with less capable midi controllers, could keep everything on one midi channel, and in essence, use the device like we currently do. However, those with more capable midi controllers, could split the channel assignments into a different midi channel, so that we could use more of the 128 CC # on the primary midi channel?

This is important (to me) and I hope you will consider implementing it in a way that doesn't orphan some of the users, but allows others to more fully exploit and take advantage of the increased CC parameter capabilities of the Axe III.

Thanks
I suspect that the better answer for more capable controllers would be to use sysex instead of CCs.
 
I suspect that the better answer for more capable controllers would be to use sysex instead of CCs.

I guess. But I would probably use midi CC's for channels first, until I ran out of them, or until I've mapped every block to a CC, and then finish the rest of the CC's with whatever I can that would be "sweepable" like the continuous modifiers that can be attached to a knob inside a block.

And then use Sysex simply for the On/Off of effects blocks.

The reason? Because many of the blocks contain 4 channels. That's four sysex messages to access all the channels. But on/off is 2 messages.
 
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