Closed All the High-End Distortion/Overdrive Pedals

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Dr. Dipwad

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...that I ever wanted to try, but lacked the money to buy.

We have a nice set of them already (in the Axe II, and presumably the Axe III also).

But I'd love to have all the Wampler, JHS, Bogner, Friedman, ToneBone, MesaBoogie, Keeley, WayHuge, etc. distortions and overdrives, to try out virtually.

Now, I gotta admit: If they were all in there, there'd be massive overlap in tonality because some of those circuits are very similar.

I get that.

But the truth is that I don't know...
  • which ones are identical circuits in different-colored boxes;
  • which ones require different knob settings to achieve the same sound;
  • which ones are similar but have different EQ sensitivities or gain ranges; and,
  • which ones are so different that, no matter how you tweak the knobs on one of them, you would never get close to the sound of the other.
...and I don't have any way to find that out through personal experimentation, because after I buy the Axe III and upcoming foot-controllers, I won't have any cash left over.

So, I want enough Drive options to cover them all...,

and then, in the PDF manual (or a Yek's Guide to...), I'd like a list of all the famous pedals this drive block can sound like (provided you set the params just-so).

That way I'll be satisfied I don't need to shell out another $250 I don't have for Awesome Overdrive XYZ. I'll just dial up the Drive model which the manual says should be used for Overdrive XYZ and go from there.

After all, that's what Fractal has already done for us in the world of Amps and Cabs: They gave us a whole arsenal of GAS-killing options that we could never afford otherwise.

I'm hoping for the same thing in the stompbox realm.
 
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good thread, for me I only need 2 peddles in the p. block and base my comments on being a AX8 owner not a AXE owner so #1. Full-Drive III, & #2.Soul Food...
 
DaveO said:
good thread, for me I only need 2 peddles in the p. block and base my comments on being a AX8 owner not a AXE owner so #1. Full-Drive III, & #2.Soul Food...
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Full Drive III is already modeled.
 
I've discussed the King of Tone here before, but having actually tried to replicate it (I have one) I found it isn't really possible in a single block. The thing is, it is actually more like two pedals in one, and they work either/or/both, hence the two foot-switches. You can get a sort-of replication putting two Drive blocks back to back, a clean boost and something like a TS808. If Cliff ever gets of a mind to dive into it, I'd sure loan him mine to work from!
 
Hippietim:
hippietim said:
Klon
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Yeah, I was going to add Klon to the list -- but I kept having this tickle at the back of my brain saying, "Waitaminute, isn't the Klon Centaur already in the Axe FX II somewhere, but just not under that name?"

So I searched around and found that on page 38 of Yek's Guide to FAS Drive Models, he describes how to use the custom FET Boost drive model to create the sound of the Klon Centaur (for clean-boost usage, at least). He spells out the settings as follows:
  • Clip type Silicon – Gain: about 6 – Mid: +1 – High Cut: about 6000 – Level: about 7.
  • Clip type Germanium – Gain: 5 – Tone: 4 to 5 – Mid: +0.9 – Level: 6.5 to 8.

This example DOES rather seem to prove my point, though.

Here's what I mean. Either using the FET Boost with the right settings is close enough to a Klon, or it's not.

If it IS close enough, then a lot of folks (including you, Hippietim) don't know about it. That seems like a problem that needs fixing.

If it IS NOT close enough, then the Axe FX II (and probably the III) lacks a overdrive model emulating an overdrive so sought-after that several companies have "clones" of it, and originals can go for upwards of a thousand dollars on the used market. And THAT seems like a problem in need of fixing, too.

Which brings me back to my original request:

I want...
All the High-End Distortion/Overdrive Pedals
...so that I can stop GAS-ing about $200+ pedals in Sweetwater and Musician's Friend catalogs.

But realistically, there's no point having a Klon Centaur, a Wampler Tumnus, and a J. Rockett Archer in the same Axe FX III. There's no point, because the Tumnus and the Archer are clones of the Klon. If Fractal adds just one of them, Yek will probably give us settings for how to use it so that it sounds most like the other two. One pedal covers three.

Heh, there's a thought: Say this, 10 times, as quickly as you can:
"Yek could con your canny ears with clones of Klon for years and years." :D

Anyhow, if there's some popular drive pedal out there that CAN'T reasonably be emulated by the models the Axe FX III has in inventory, I guess I want that added.

And if there's some popular drive pedal out there that CAN reasonably be emulated by the existing models, I want to know that, so I can stop wondering whether to buy it. ;)
 
I have a Klon, and one of those Yek settings (germanium)is mine from A/Bing it in clean boost mode. The closet real life pedal to a Klon I have heard is the Tumnus. The FET boost can do the job,
 
Having built a few pedals and being an axe user for a couple years, I don’t see any reason a person couldn’t replicate most pedals/ fx out there. Sure, you may have to use more than one block in cases where 2 or more circuits were combined but, hey! That’s the fun part! Most circuits are a variation on some other a simple circuit design.

One can easily search out a pedals history and in most cases a schematic giving you enough information to clone the device yourself within the Axe Fx. I haven’t done this yet but, it always seemed feasible to me.
 
There already some very good drive models I think. What is lacking is good fuzz models....The ones that are in there don't do it for me.
 
yek said:
The fuzz models are really great. It's the impedance thing that no modeler can't solve.

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Drive_block#Fuzz.2C_buffers_and_impedance
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With the ability to vary the impedance setting on a per channel basis, and also the drive block settings, on a per channel basis, and then associate those with a scene change, you can come pretty darn close.

My drive blocks don’t clean up as well as a good germanium fuzz with the guitar volume pot on their own, but, if you change the impedance and the drive block setting, and then roll the volume back, you can get a very similar tone, feel and response.

I’m listing my Mjm London, Sunface and Red Stardust Chase Tone Ge fuzzes all for sale because the Axe is coming really really close now

It’s basically change scene AND roll the volume pot instead of just roll the volume pot to go to totally clean from all out wooly fuzz, but I can live with that pretty well
 
austinbuddy said:
I have a Klon, and one of those Yek settings (germanium)is mine from A/Bing it in clean boost mode. The closet real life pedal to a Klon I have heard is the Tumnus. The FET boost can do the job,
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I recently acquired a Tumnus, and it is easily the most mojo filled boost /drive I’ve encountered , and it has earned a permanent place in the front of my rig, that magic impedance thing does make it stand out from any emulated drive in the box....as @yek states..makes a difference.
 
bradlake said:
I recently acquired a Tumnus, and it is easily the most mojo filled boost /drive I’ve encountered , and it has earned a permanent place in the front of my rig, that magic impedance thing does make it stand out from any emulated drive in the box....as @yek states..makes a difference.
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I don’t have a Tumnus, but one thing I found on my Centura is that it isn’t an impedance thing, but an always active buffer thing.

Plug the pedal into the chain and everything sounds different, even when the pedal is bypassed. In fact, if the pedal doesn’t have power it doesn’t pass signal. Activate the pedal and it’s a nice boost and/or OD, but disengage it and it’s still affecting the tone with its buffer.

As such, it’s not always the pedals actual OD/drive circuit people love as an “always on” type of pedal, it’s the simple aspect of having a buffer and some people would still love the pedal even bypassed.

See what has happened is that the “true bypass” obsession got a bit carried away and lots of guys felt they needed every single pedal true bypass. Got to avoid that dreaded “tone suck” right? Lol. We put a bunch of true bypass pedals together along with lots of pedal board wiring, and you do lose some tone. Stick a buffer in there, knowingly or not, and people like the resultant tone. When I was trying to A/B the pedal and drive blocks I found I couldn’t do it with the pedal in the chain because it was always changing the tone, on or off. It also changes how any other OD’s etc would sound after it.

A lot of people do enjoy the OD aspects of the circuit, but many just like the drive at 0, unity output, neutral treble setting. It improves their tone and it’s essentially because it’s a buffered output, and buffers are not always something to be avoided. They are good things. Lots of people would find things like a Boss pedal sounded great in their chain too, because they had buffers. Buffers are kind of like sneaking vegetables into a kids food. Good for them but if you tell them something is a vegetable they automatically won’t want to eat it lol.

I found that on a lot of patches I could get the same tone/feel as the Centura just by bumping the input trim a little. Little boost in the input helped with my long guitar cable, pickup output etc and subjectively improved my tone. Plenty ways to do the same thing in box, but when something hardware gives us a little eq curve shift, slight output bump etc, and it sounds subjectively better it’s “mojo” because we don’t know what it’s doing, we just know it sounds better. Some guys will pay hundreds or thousands for that mojo. In the Axe there is no magic behind the curtains, it’s less sexy, no mystery. It’s usually pretty boring in fact. Slight eq curve tweak, little level adjustment, and it can sound the same, but it’s lacking the cool looking paint job and knobs, stories about NOS parts and how old caps sound different than new caps etc, and the thrill of the hunt for the hard to find.

There is mojo in pedals, no mistake about that, but it’s not really related to the tone, becasue with a little work and understanding you can get that same tone, it just won’t have the “mojo” because the curtain was pulled back on how the trick was done.
 
lqdsnddist said:
With the ability to vary the impedance setting on a per channel basis, and also the drive block settings, on a per channel basis, and then associate those with a scene change, you can come pretty darn close.

My drive blocks don’t clean up as well as a good germanium fuzz with the guitar volume pot on their own, but, if you change the impedance and the drive block setting, and then roll the volume back, you can get a very similar tone, feel and response.

I’m listing my Mjm London, Sunface and Red Stardust Chase Tone Ge fuzzes all for sale because the Axe is coming really really close now
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Where do change the impendance and how do you set it? Can you give a screenshot of the drive block setting for a good fuzz? I have a hard time getting good fuzz sound (I have an Axe II)
 
Bodde said:
Where do change the impendance and how do you set it? Can you give a screenshot of the drive block setting for a good fuzz? I have a hard time getting good fuzz sound (I have an Axe II)
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Input block has the Impedance setting.
 
With all the amp models, EQ options, deep-dive settings in amps and speakers,etc., I have found no need for Drive blocks in the Axe III. Throw them out and give me some more modulation models and delays. Channels are my boosts for leads with altered settings. I especially favor switching from a crunchy HBE to a screaming JVM ...... or try switching cabs or cab balances ...... Oh! my!

Boost, overdrive, and distortion pedals are just so 2010'ish ........ :p
 
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