All Gain Tones sound fuzzy/buzzy?

[MetalMan]

lol yeah don't know what it is, although might be right on with your dark and smooth quality along with a decent delay, if I'm playing to jam tracks I'll just roll through scenes till I find the right model for my mood and let it rip.

I agree, the Friedman is suited for more laid back stuff. I just find it somewhat interesting when used to play hard rock or metal (thrash, NWOBHM). It just doesn’t have the tightness, clarity and bite that the 2203 has.

Also, I for hard rock I will always take that Cinderella Marshall tone over any Friedman, huge and juicy. And hey, even Reb Beach agrees

 

[VESmedic]

This!! Why is everyone afraid of a raw, non-smooth/semi-abrasive sound with high end? Everything sounds too polished these days, I couldn’t get rid of my PT-20 fast enough

Agree completely man. Everyone is afraid, making everything sound safe. There is no one taking chances anymore like they used to. The soft, incredibly dark, safe tones of today are nauseating. I think Friedman’s sound great for what they are don’t get me wrong, but I would probably never use one. To me they take everything about a Marshall and what MAKES a Marshall a Marshall, and destroys it.

 

[TwinbornAxis]

I agree, the Friedman is suited for more laid back stuff. I just find it somewhat interesting when used to play hard rock or metal (thrash, NWOBHM). It just doesn’t have the tightness, clarity and bite that the 2203 has.

Also, I for hard rock I will always take that Cinderella Marshall tone over any Friedman, huge and juicy. And hey, even Reb Beach agrees

100%

 

[Darrin66]

Another thing to try is in the Cab block, turn the High Cut down from 20000 to 7000 or 8000.

Or lower, that and the right IR is what worked for me. Struggled with this for a while.

 

[CitizenKang]

Perhaps try reinstalling firmware? I had an experience once where the amp block sounded really off after an update even though that wasn't expected to happen based on the nature of the update. I decided to try reinstalling the firmware update and that did the trick.

 

[My name is mud]

The more the modeler is accurate, the more it will sound “dirty” like the heads are. When you play with the original, you realize that they are “dirty” sounding. What sound “polished” is the fake sim you have in some products or distortion pedals

 

[cole lewis]

1) The IR you are using is the number one thing to need to know first. If you are using one that used a ribbon mic for example, it's going to produce a muddier, fuzzier tone. Most records you listen to and like the sound of are probably recorded with dynamic mics which cut low end from the sound.

2) Your pickups. Some pickups are quite smooth and neutral sounding. Dimarzio tone zone, some active pickups like the Kiesel polarity pickups I have in one of my guitars.

It's my experience that with most real amp heads (not all but I think you could say most) you can turn up the presence to 10 without a total laser beam of treble killing you, especially if you are far away from the cabinet/speaker. If you are playing most modelers/plugins. Turning the presence to 10 sounds absolutely horrendous. The Axe FX especially at this point is the only digital emulator that comes close in my experience to letting you actually turn the knobs as far as you would on the real heads. Because it is accurate as Mud said.

Put a tube screamer in front of whatever high gain amp model you are using. Drive zero, level ten, tone 5-7. Use an IR like a Mesa Recto cab with a 57 mic. If that sounds fuzzy/muddy, something is wrong somewhere in your signal chain.

Also something I forget about all the time is the master volume setting on the amp models. I think most of us forget it a lot of the time. On every amp model with a master volume except for a few, it usually defaults to 5. Just imagine the real amps with the MV at 5. Need to turn that down for a more defined sound without so much poweramp coloration going on.

 

[sprint]

Short sound samples (just a couple of
chords) along with preset + guitar description are essential in these types of threads imo. Without those, the chances of getting relevant feedback of any value is significantly diminished since everyone's perception of fuzzy/buzzy//fizzy/... is different. I know this sounds like motherhood and it's a pain for OPs to do, but I say it anyway because I see the pattern endlessly repeating here where someone asks why their tone is weird without a sample etc, and they get a myriad of explanations that, despite being well intended and thoughtful, have little chance of hitting the mark without hearing the problem tone first hand and knowing what type of guitar/pups wre used (even then, hands can play a role, but that basic info would at least get everyone on the same page initially).

 

[Fjelltronen]

I don't have any fuzzy/buzzy/fizzy issues but I have incorporated into my SOP the idea recently discussed in another thread of turning down the high treble to achieve a more 'organic' tone. I like the effect. I knock it down to -6 and then bring it back up a bit to taste. So far I have only implemented this on high gain tones. My thanks to whoever the people were who discussed it, I forget who.

 

[FPFL]

I agree, the Friedman is suited for more laid back stuff. I just find it somewhat interesting when used to play hard rock or metal (thrash, NWOBHM). It just doesn’t have the tightness, clarity and bite that the 2203 has.

Also, I for hard rock I will always take that Cinderella Marshall tone over any Friedman, huge and juicy. And hey, even Reb Beach agrees

Reb plays Suhr modded Marshalls when he has a choice, or even Suhr and Custom Audio amps if they are local.

There's some YT videos with him talking about sending Marshalls to John. I wish Suhr redid a version of his original cut out Ibanez.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Short sound samples (just a couple of
chords) along with preset + guitar description are essential in these types of threads imo. Without those, the chances of getting relevant feedback of any value is significantly diminished since everyone's perception of fuzzy/buzzy//fizzy/... is different. I know this sounds like motherhood and it's a pain for OPs to do, but I say it anyway because I see the pattern endlessly repeating here where someone asks why their tone is weird without a sample etc, and they get a myriad of explanations that, despite being well intended and thoughtful, have little chance of hitting the mark without hearing the problem tone first hand and knowing what type of guitar/pups wre used (even then, hands can play a role, but that basic info would at least get everyone on the same page initially).

A sound sample helps, but I much prefer seeing the actual preset pointing to a factory IR, and the system backup file. Sound samples can be badly EQd in the DAW, but the preset and the system setting backup lets us replicate that machine and saved state and everything controlling the sound generation.

If that sounds and looks good then we know that the problem is outside the modeler.

And, definitely, we all need to be able to work from the same page.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It does not seem to matter which high-gain amp model I try, all of them seem a touch fuzzy. I’m currently running a Friedman HBE V1 patch.

Just to clarify, most of the stock presets sound this way to me, and I’ve tried them through different FRFR speakers.

Is it the IR or do I need to change up the EQ somewhere??

I will say I know it’s something I’m missing or not doing to smooth things out.

You didn’t tell us enough.

• Do you have any EQ compensation set in the global EQ for the OUT you’re using?
• Does the problem occur with headphones?
• How loud are you listening?
• Exactly what FRFR speakers and where are they positioned in relation to you?
• Is there a Wah block or foot controller in the presets?
• What IR are you using? Are you using the appropriate speaker impedance curve for the IR?
• What firmware version are you using?

Factory presets use Wah blocks, and a foot controller that is misconfigured can affect the sound because it will be enabled. Also, factory presets are EQd for stage volume, and when they’re not at that volume the guitar gain and mids can suffer, affecting the sound.

You might be hearing ghost notes. They’re a result of how the real amplifier’s circuitry behaves and they’re reproduced by the models. They’ve fooled many people into thinking that there is something wrong with the modeler, but they’re actually part of the sound and an indication of the quality of the modeler. And they can be dialed out but doing so reduces the accuracy.

Real amps can be spitty, gritty sounding things, but most players are usually not standing where they can actually accurately hear what is coming from the speaker cabinet. The modeler does a really good job of recreating the sound of the amp and speaker, but we usually have the speakers pointed at our ears and the accuracy surprises people who don’t normally hear the sound of the speaker on-axis. Cliff talks about various ways to adjust the sound to reduce that, but it’ll reduce the accuracy at the same time. You can sculpt a GEQ or PEQ block’s curve to get rid of the sound you don’t like, or use a different IR and/or speaker impedance curve, maybe reduce the gain or roll down the guitar’s tone control, etc.

Tell us what factory presets are doing it, or share your preset using a factory cab, and we can poke around.

 

[sprint]

A sound sample helps, but I much prefer seeing the actual preset pointing to a factory IR, and the system backup file. Sound samples can be badly EQd in the DAW, but the preset and the system setting backup lets us replicate that machine and saved state and everything controlling the sound generation.

If that sounds and looks good then we know that the problem is outside the modeler.

And, definitely, we all need to be able to work from the same page.

it's all important but I'd give the sound sample more emphesis than you in cases of "my tone sounds weird" since the sound sample (badly eq'd or not) will reveal what the OP perceives as incorrect and is an audible starting point for those trying to help. A preset alone can misrepresent a tone issue to those helping because a preset does not account for guitar, hands, room, volume, global parameter differences, and the perception of tone which can be clarified in a discussion thread very quickly with a sound sample. But regardless of which accompanying information is most useful in which situation, if an OP seriously wants to get to the root of why something sounds strange, and we seriously want to help in an effective way, then detail on all of the following, in no particular order, is essential:

• Sound Sample of the issue with info on how rendered (and ideally an accompanying DI to enable precise recreation if needed).
• Clear description (unless obvious) of precisely what sounds wrong in reference to the sample.
• Preset.
• Info on any special global parameters used (ie EQ)
• Info on Guitar Used including at least type (ie LP, Strat, 7Str...) and pickups (SC, Hum...) - more detailed info if possible.
• Type of music played and at what volume and in what tuning.
• Info on monitoring type (ie Headphones, FRFR, Guitar Cab ...) and output amplification (ie SS, tube ...)
• Info on the room (minimally: big, small, treated)

With this basic and fairly easy to provide info, we have a solid starting point that narrows down the issue (and possible causes). Some of these items will help more or less depending on the situation, but if this info is made a standard starting point, chances are pretty good peeps here would be able to get to the crux of any "my tone sounds weird" type issues. If I had my way, the above info would have to be submitted by an OP before such threads could even be created. With this, I think more people would jump in to help on such threads, and with more focused feedback.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

Try turning the gate/s off, if they are on.

 

[Unboxed]

Friedman HBE 2010 is my favorite on the Axe. It sound amazing to me, and maybe it's just because I play a wet sound with either a pitch block or chorus and reverb

 

[gspencer26]

I was able to play around with the JVM OD1 Orange stock preset today for 20 min. It sounded pretty awesome through a PA system running PreSonus Air tops.

There was a pretty high “Ice pick” overtone when play notes past the 12 frets on the higher strings. Suggestions on that?

I dialed in the cuts on the cab block, and played with the output EQ in the amp block but could not get that to disappear. Didn’t have a ton of time though to experiment

 

[AtomicJeff]

I was able to play around with the JVM OD1 Orange stock preset today for 20 min. It sounded pretty awesome through a PA system running PreSonus Air tops.

There was a pretty high “Ice pick” overtone when play notes past the 12 frets on the higher strings. Suggestions on that?

I dialed in the cuts on the cab block, and played with the output EQ in the amp block but could not get that to disappear. Didn’t have a ton of time though to experiment

Following...for my own future reference.

 

[skolacki]

I was able to play around with the JVM OD1 Orange stock preset today for 20 min. It sounded pretty awesome through a PA system running PreSonus Air tops.

There was a pretty high “Ice pick” overtone when play notes past the 12 frets on the higher strings. Suggestions on that?

I dialed in the cuts on the cab block, and played with the output EQ in the amp block but could not get that to disappear. Didn’t have a ton of time though to experiment

Bright cap maybe? For me it’s better to not use the cap and recover the highs with other methods.

 

[gspencer26]

I don't have any fuzzy/buzzy/fizzy issues but I have incorporated into my SOP the idea recently discussed in another thread of turning down the high treble to achieve a more 'organic' tone. I like the effect. I knock it down to -6 and then bring it back up a bit to taste. So far I have only implemented this on high gain tones. My thanks to whoever the people were who discussed it, I forget who.

Where are you find the “high treble” to adjust it? Just curious as id like to try that on the JVM model I’m testing out

 

[Rumbletone]

This!! Why is everyone afraid of a raw, non-smooth/semi-abrasive sound with high end? Everything sounds too polished these days, I couldn’t get rid of my PT-20 fast enough

One thing I’ve learned is that some of us have more hearing damage than others. I’ve played in dozens of bands over the years and I’ve seen a correlation - for example, the guitarists who crank 4x12s with no hearing protection for decades tend to dial their tones in with more upper mids and highs (and can’t adequately hear other instruments who don’t), and those who have worn hearing protection (or not played in super loud settings over the course of decades) tend to dial their tones a bit less cutting and are more likely to find others’ tones to be too fizzy/bright.

I currently play in one band where 2 of our band members share an IEM mix and it’s clear that they hear things very differently - for one of them everything is always too quiet/too dark, and the other always finds the mix too bright/loud/abrasive. They’ve even switched IEMs to confirm it’s not the IEMs themselves or the headphone amps.