Alex Lifeson Hiwatt

Listening to soundboard recordings around 1978 to 1981, amps being Hiwatt and Marsall Countryman combo mostly used. I've read extensively that the Countryman was a copy of a Fender amp reknown for its clear, clean tone. The Hiwatt doesn't overdrive and distort at all. I have been on the Hiwatt trying to get close to the tone. I know the Countryman is not modelled. How the hell does Alex get the buzz and distortion on every song. I could be wrong but does he literally have a distorion pedal on for the whole set?

I have searched many threads and forums on his tone from that era, all I know is that the MXR was deployed for overdrive, but does that mean it's on the minute he hits to stage. I am proper stuck on this. On the Exit Stage Left album the Hiwatt and Marsall Countryman are used. When creating patches do people keep the Hiwatt on clean and then add the distortion ( don't know which MXR is the one )

It doesn't make sense to me when the man could have used any amp in that period with a decent overdrive and distortion, instead of the two amps known for country music! And clean. Sorry I know there are a million threads on this mans tone, but the answer always eludes me. So do I start with a gritty Hiwatt and add distortion? Or totally clean and keep distortion patch for whole song. same with songs like Bastille Day, Anthem all apparently use a Fender too. Very confused. Thanks for any help and replies!

Lol still not sure which Flanger best suits the ESL album, any ideas. None seem to have the huge sweep
 
I tried really hard to make some good Lifeson tones with the MXR D+ model, and I just couldn't get it to work for me. It is really quiet and it always sounds thin to me. I spent a ton of time on my '78-'81 Rush tones, and I realized that Alex's live tone at its basic unmodulated level wasn't actually that good (imo), and I started to focus on the studio tones instead. I actually started running a split Hiwatt and and AC30 model chain. I know that sounds odd, but the AC30 gets this huge mid hump that is prevalent particularly on Permanent Waves, and it works great for me. I do use an OD model to get grit; I'll have to look again, but I believe I was using either the Ruckus or one of the Tube Driver models. They just sound far more natural. The last couple firmware updates screwed up my Moving Pictures sound and I still haven't been able to fix it, but my Permanent Waves and Hemispheres sounds are pretty good to my ears.

As far as the modulation goes, on ESL he had the CE-1 on for much of the show, and that's where the super thick watery rhythm tones came from. I find that its easier to recreate that sound using a flanger block rather than a chorus block. As for the flanger that he kicks in once in a while, its an EHX Electric Mistress, which is a very hard sound to nail down on the Axe. There is a thread originally started by javajunkie about recreating the EHX EM, and more recently in that thread someone posted an updated version of what he did that will get you in the ballpark, but it still isn't quite right to my ears.

When I have some time I'll take a look at my preset and maybe upload it for you to check out.
 
I agree with the AC30 + Hiwatt.

This may sound funny but, way back when, I was using a Vamp 2. The closest I could come to Alex's studio tone from that era was their AC30 model.
 
I'll have to look when I get home on my Moving Pictures setup, but prior firmwares (up to 2.01) I used the Bogner Fish ... However since then, I have to use a two amp setup with at least one Bogner amp (stratos?) and something else ... And I dig a triangle chorus to create both depth and thickness. No drive/boost (until the leads) as I already have distortion with good harmonics structure going. Also, no delay on Limelight (except for the lead), but a good amount of reverb (per the album mix tone).

I'll re-post when I can view my patch.
 
I have a Hiwatt DR-504 and it gets pretty crunchy. I don't know if Alex used it on Limelight, but to me, it sounds identical to my amp.

I do know for Spirit of Radio, the dirty track is double track with a guitar going straight into the board.

A lot of times, there isn't as much gain as you think there is. Double tracking makes it sound more gainy. For example, people forget that AC/DC had both Malcolm and Angus both playing a lot of the time.
 
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I remember seeing them from the 14th row during Permanent Waves. Alex's tone was definitely a HiWatt on face melt which sounded a bit different from the studio tracks. Loud as hell. I had hard time placing the MXR Distortion+ of that time. You could definitely hear the Germanium diode sound in there, but it never sounded like any MXR that I ever played through. Later, I learned that Germanium diodes could vary greatly. So, I have kind of assumed that he found a special one though I have never been able to verify it.
 
I remember seeing them from the 14th row during Permanent Waves. Alex's tone was definitely a HiWatt on face melt which sounded a bit different from the studio tracks. Loud as hell. I had hard time placing the MXR Distortion+ of that time. You could definitely hear the Germanium diode sound in there, but it never sounded like any MXR that I ever played through. Later, I learned that Germanium diodes could vary greatly. So, I have kind of assumed that he found a special one though I have never been able to verify it.
I'm not sure he started using the MXR until the Moving Pictures tours. If you listen to the live recordings of the PW tour (like the St. Louis soundboard from 1980) and then listen to stuff from the MP tours, the change in sound is pretty drastic. For PW, it sounds like the Hiwatt and Club & Countrys dimed with a CE-1 thrown in front most of the time. For MP, its way thicker and IMO less articulate. The higher strings seem to disappear on the big bar chords. I think the best example of what his Hiwatts sounded like on their own can be heard in the "vault edition" of The Trees.
 
Anyone who thinks Hiwatts don't distort has just never played one loud enough.

I've owned a handful - Hylight DR504 and DR103, and one of the first Audio Brothers DR103 reissues. They have a much more 'linear' feeling progression; they don't go from clean at '2' to blow-down-walls at '3' like non-master Marshalls...but they're definitely dirty when wound up. Especially if you replace the phase inverter with a 12AX7 (stock was 12AT7)...which apparently everyone did, because I've never seen a vintage amp with anything other than a full set of 12AX7s.
 
Thanks for all replies people, still no answer to the amp question..clean+distortion, overdrive and distortion all the time? Which MXR?
 
I found this Wiki - not sure ow accurate it is listing AL's rigs for album and tours, but according to the Wiki, AL,did not use the MXR Distortion Plus (I don't think the Larger version 2 was available then) on the Permanet Waves Tour, but he did on the Moving Pictures Tour.

I have an original MXR Distortion Plus that I purchases in 1980 or so. I'll connect to my Hiwatt and see how it sounds compared to ESL.
 
Cheers dude, but with those amps being cleanish, does he have a distortion on the whole show? Soundboards from 78 to 81 hardly ever sound clean, in fact somewhat buzzy and waspish! Surely those amps can never generate the OD or distortion from me creatining a patch with a cleanish Hiwatt? In the eighties I used to play in a band and my Session amp was set to clean, but I played most of the set with my trusty Boss HM2 pedal on 80 per cent. You can distort a clean but not the other way around
 
Cheers dude, but with those amps being cleanish, does he have a distortion on the whole show? Soundboards from 78 to 81 hardly ever sound clean, in fact somewhat buzzy and waspish! Surely those amps can never generate the OD or distortion from me creatining a patch with a cleanish Hiwatt? In the eighties I used to play in a band and my Session amp was set to clean, but I played most of the set with my trusty Boss HM2 pedal on 80 per cent. You can distort a clean but not the other way around
Like Adinfinitum and I said, he did not use the MXR until Moving Pictures. I don't believe he used any OD or Distortion at all until then. What you hear before that point is mostly the Hiwatts with the volumes cranked real high. On the Hemispheres tours in particular, that was all he had for his dirty sound. Try using the Hipower Jumped model and cranking the treble drive all the way up and the Normal drive between 5 and 7. Alex loved to crank the mids and highs on his Hiwatts and Marshalls, which is why they sound almost "buzzy" as you said. Also dime the master volume and then adjust the Level control to help with volume. Like AdmiralB said, Hiwatts can get plenty crunchy, they just have to set incredibly loud.
 
Cheers fellas, can't plug in now but hard to believe that buzzy overdriven sound was Hiwatt alone, even cranked real high! But then again I suppose sheer volume could do that, I read that even the famous Marshall SLP never achieved that level of distortion, even when cranked all the way. I thought only modern amps with saturation and gain was the only way, but then I've never been lucky to own a vintage amp. Many thanks I'll give it a go tomorrow.
 
thought I remembered reading somewhere that the permanent waves recordings he used some sunn amps....I could be wrong. The studio version of Spirit Of Radio is a real tough bag of tricks for sure. Great stuff all around from that trio of greats!!
 
So who is going to start so share their presets??? :) Hopefully it's with just 1 amp so I can use it on my AX8.

BTW, Alex tone is one of the reasons I bought an AX8 in the first place but I haven't started on that tone quest yet...
 
Listening to soundboard recordings around 1978 to 1981, amps being Hiwatt and Marsall Countryman combo mostly used. I've read extensively that the Countryman was a copy of a Fender amp reknown for its clear, clean tone. The Hiwatt doesn't overdrive and distort at all. I have been on the Hiwatt trying to get close to the tone. I know the Countryman is not modelled. How the hell does Alex get the buzz and distortion on every song. I could be wrong but does he literally have a distorion pedal on for the whole set?

I have searched many threads and forums on his tone from that era, all I know is that the MXR was deployed for overdrive, but does that mean it's on the minute he hits to stage. I am proper stuck on this. On the Exit Stage Left album the Hiwatt and Marsall Countryman are used. When creating patches do people keep the Hiwatt on clean and then add the distortion ( don't know which MXR is the one )

It doesn't make sense to me when the man could have used any amp in that period with a decent overdrive and distortion, instead of the two amps known for country music! And clean. Sorry I know there are a million threads on this mans tone, but the answer always eludes me. So do I start with a gritty Hiwatt and add distortion? Or totally clean and keep distortion patch for whole song. same with songs like Bastille Day, Anthem all apparently use a Fender too. Very confused. Thanks for any help and replies!

Lol still not sure which Flanger best suits the ESL album, any ideas. None seem to have the huge sweep


Hi there and hello to all - I am new to the forum and just found this post. I hope someone sees my response.

Hiwatt with a MXR D+ is right on the money. Add a compressor and you are there. As for when he started using the D+, do not go by what Alex offers as his definitive rig. His replies on this are super sketchy and should only be used as a starting point. Back in the '70s, my impression is that guys liked to be somewhat secretive about their rigs, for whatever reason. Page has never given up the goods on his studio rigs and Van Halen deliberately mislead people in his earliest GP interview.

As for Alex, that D+ was in play all the way back to ATWAS. If you look at Martin Popoff's book, the inside cover has a pick from the sound board. On the board, you see and Echoplex and...you guessed it...a MXR D+. I have had Hiwatts for years. Dimed or not, the only one I ever had that gave you real, gainy, distortion, was an OL-504 from the Biacrown era, circa 1984. This amp used a mod you can read about on Mark Huss's page. Did Alex have this mod? I highly doubt it since it was something the Hiwatt folks came up with after Dave Reeves passed away in their effort to compete with gainier amps, popular at that time. I have been looking for an OL lately and hope to pick one up sometime after the first of the year. Great amp, in fact many who know me say that was my best rig. Why did I sell it? The '80s. Need I say more?

I hope this helps. Happy Holidays!!!
 
Sorry RushFan! Just seen this. I'm obsessed by most of his tones altough he lost me in the PRS era. THe soundboard recordings at Tuscon and Black Forest highlight his tone. Shame that when Exit was released his tone was muddy. Don't know if the Countryman played a part..Welcome aboard mate,,ha ha You'll see most of my comments also trying to emulate his Flange on ESL album, especially the Trees and Jacobs Ladder. I've tried and not even close on the Axe 2. His flange just takes over the whole tone which I love. I find the Axe version even full is not the same. Cheers for the tips mate!
 
The MXR D+ is central, but the sound has the characteristics of any distortion with a germanium diode like the MXR D+. Not saying that you could use any distortion with a germanium diode; but if you find that the MXR D+ is not cutting it, that's where to look.
 
The MXR D+ is central, but the sound has the characteristics of any distortion with a germanium diode like the MXR D+. Not saying that you could use any distortion with a germanium diode; but if you find that the MXR D+ is not cutting it, that's where to look.
What settings would you use? I've personally never had good results with the D+ but I haven't tried it a lot either.
 
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