AFX with amp - 4CM - VERY noisey

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paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
Hi all.

For the first time in 6 years I own a real amp. Had been gasing for a while to fulfill a couple of purposes. Firstly I wanted a small combo as a pick up and go solution - the AFX is great, but its still a 4U rack, Cab and Midi board for me (I still go amp/cab live). For "round a mates" or "jam" type sessions it was too much. Secondly I wanted a valve reference - as I hadnt had anything to compare the AFC against for a while.

Anyway - finally jumped on a Fender Machete, as it was stupidly priced. The amps really nice, and 3 of my patches were surprisingly close to the Ch 1 clean/pull gain and Ch 2 settings on the Machete (delux for the clean, princeton for the boost and custom audio for the lead).

Anyway - was looking at ways of integrating it into the home set-up. initially used the AFX in the loop of the Fender - no problem. However when using it in the 4 Cable method, to get the best out of pre-post pre-amp FX, its REALLY noisey. Its the signal coming out the the AFX loop, being amp'd byt the Fenders pre-amp. Its audible in all 3 gain settings - but not surprisingly its VERY loud in the gain channel. I disabled all the FX just to be sure something wasnt ramping up the gain - and its not. Plugging into the amps front end direct, and the gain channel is surprisingly quiet, but going into the AFX, then out of the FX loop first block (via OP 2) and its REALLY noisey. I can disconnect the shunt from input to the FX loop - and it makes no difference, still REALLY loud. Running a row of shunts to OP 1 is quieter, but not as quiet as the ap on its ow.

I am using "hum buster" cables on the outputs (both OP 1 and OP2) but not input 2 (from the amps FX send).

So - any tips hear. Ive put a gate inline for now on the gain patch - but its threshold has to be around -15db to have any effect. I get two green LEDs on the input 2s meter when on the Fenders gain channel (so you see how loud the signal is). As I say - plug into the amp direct on Ch 2, the go into the AFX i/p 2 and its quiet. Its definitely the AFX output from OP 2 causing the issue - guitar signal or no guitar signal.
 
I have gotten all sorted of "other" noise doing 4CM on amps before I had the AXE =). Things I found that gave noise.
* cell phones too close to wires.
* certain pedals plugged into a cheap power supply
* cheap cables
* see the other 2 posts as well.

I was never able to get a 100% clean sound and I love that I can do just about anything thriugh the AXE so I don't have to deal with these other factors as much.
 
Its not a ground loop - that would cause hum. This noise is a white noise hiss. Its not phones - that causes other noises, and dont have any near the AFX/amp anyway. Its not cables - same cable direct from guitar to amp is noiseless. wireless into AFX with same cable top amp via OP 2 = noise. In fact, any cable (tried 3) from AFX OP 2 to amp gives hiss. I get it with nothing plugged into the front of the AFX as well. I even get it with NO signal chain - just an FX block then out to the amp via OP 2 = Noise. Same cable from AFX from OP 1 = no noise, even with an amp block in the chain.

Kind of annoying - I can run FX pre amp (into AFX through FX, out via OP to to amp input). I can run FX post amp (in amps FX loop into front of axe then out of OP 1 to FX return on amp). I can do anything with OP 2 without getting this hiss - so cant run 4CM to have drives/way/comp pre amp and modulations post amp.

In truth, I dont really need it I guess. The idea behind the amp was a pick up and go - so wouldnt have the AFX for FX anyway. Id probably just use on board reverb - possibly get a cheap delay and maybe an OD pedal. At gigs its the AFX rig (unless I get a bit part in a straight up blues or rock band). At home recording its AFX, and generally (once honeymoon with new amp over) at home practice levels the AFX is still the best way. More controllable at lowish volumes and more range of tones. Go to admit though Im enjoying just plugging into the amp right now - so if I could sort the hiss out it would be helpfull. Using the amp as a reference also doesnt need the FX - Id just compare flat amp to AFX amp only patches.
 
I tried the 4CM with my triaxis/framus cobra as well a while ago with same result as you.
Maybe there's a reason why Petrucci/Vai still use stompboxes as pre-effect.

The next fractal product might solve this issue..
 
paulmapp8306 said:
OK - I lied a little. The hiss is present from OP 1 as well. Its not quite as loud as from OP 2, but it isnt far off.
Click to expand...

What model of the Axe FX do you have? There was a mod that could be done to the output. I can't remember if this mod was standard on the Mk 2, but my Mk 1 did not have it. I'm running my XL into my EVH 5150 III using 4CM, and I don't notice the hiss that much. I'm starting to think that maybe certain amps aren't that suitable for 4CM, since this is not the first time I've heard about this.
 
I found that increasing the output pads to 18dB improved noise performance when using 4-cable method with my Diezel D-Moll. It still wasn't perfect, and it did mean that direct patches would then distort to all fuckery.
 
rule of thumb: if the noise goes away lowering level, than noise source is before the level. Check if the noise come before or after the pre... (it work with any level knob, real or virtual....)
 
I have two Axe FX units and the MkI hisses whilst the MkII doesn't. There is a mod that can be done on the MkI unit - does something to output 2 I think which reduces the hiss. There have been a few threads on this in the past.

You might get a lot of suggestions telling you what you may be doing wrong but, if you have a MkI unit, don't spend a lot of time trying to solve it because you won't. I'm speaking from experience. The MkII version is way quieter in 4CM mode.
 
If your problem is with hissing, then you can contact G66 and ask for the output 2 mod which should solve that. As I said, the MkII does not hiss and works well in 4CM. It seems from those who have had it done that the mod for the MkI achieves the same outcome.
 
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