After 10 years, I'm done...

[Lkdog]

Everyone is different. but agree for amp in the room with an AXE FX II it is hard to beat a guitar Cab.
I fooled around with powered floor monitors, and have some smaller studio monitors for mixing, but ended up with a beat up 1X12 Jet City Cab with a Celestion V90 and am using an old solid state Parasound HCA 800 II in bridged mode (260 watts RMS).
I think the Jet City Cab and the Parasound amp cost me about $300 total.

I do like to still have an amp around. Getting a used Mesa Mark V this week.

 

[krcassid]

Have you looked into the Celestion K12H-200TC by any chance?

I (literally) have tried 30 different speakers in every conceivable combination, w/ the 2:90. I have about a dozen 2 X 12s and a "powered cab switcher" so I can A/B/C/D different speaker combos in same cabs. Although I didn't try the K12H, I tried about 4 other Celestions. The best results were w/ an EV and a Creamback (90w). I tried a couple other higher power handling Celestions with no luck. I don't know this speaker. But, I know the EV really well (have been using them in Mesa since the 80s). I think the EV is pretty unique in it's ability to deliver "fairly flat" without major distortion, in a variety of situations. And, the EV seems really well suited to the Matrix. I think the EV has that same fast attack and power (I call it "slap"). Is there another speaker that can do this as well? Don't know but I'm super happy with the EVs. I know Yek, and others, were using EVMs but not sure how they were being powered. Still believe the EV/ Matrix combo has the mojo.

 

[benvigil]

Yeah the 12L is magic, but everything you mentioned about why the 12L is well suited for the Matrix is why I suggested the K12H-200TC. It has lots of power and it's flat up to about 10-12k. IOW, it's a great GRFR speaker and weights half the 12L.

 

[krcassid]

Yeah the 12L is magic, but everything you mentioned about why the 12L is well suited for the Matrix is why I suggested the K12H-200TC. It has lots of power and it's flat up to about 10-12k. IOW, it's a great GRFR speaker and weights half the 12L.

Might have to try this in one of my other cabs. Worth a try!

I'm on my way now to pick up the Matrix FR212. With the neo speakers, it'll be the lightest option and Andy at Matrix swears that this is the ultimate solution, that it is truly FRFR but has the balls of a cab. We shall see tonight! Funny: One of my other attempts was PORT City 2 X 12 w/ Jensen Neos powered by 2:90. FAIL!

Anybody else out there using the GT1000/ FR212 combo?

 

[yek]

I'm using my GT1000FX with CLRs, and with a Port City 1x12 or 2x12.

The 1x12 has an ASW KTS-70.
The 2x12 has an ASW KTS-70 and EVM-12L.

 

[SteveW]

I've been using my Axe FX III through a GT1000 and a Mesa 4 x 12 slant cab for over a year. It sounds pretty much like my Mesa DR did through the same setup (Cab SIM's off). It does however, truly shine through a good set of headphones, and gives the flexibility to build any amp/ cab combo I'd like to.

So, I'm moving to the Xitone's and ditching the Mesa cab...as it would redundant.

 

[jakbur]

Might have to try this in one of my other cabs. Worth a try!

I'm on my way now to pick up the Matrix FR212. With the neo speakers, it'll be the lightest option and Andy at Matrix swears that this is the ultimate solution, that it is truly FRFR but has the balls of a cab. We shall see tonight! Funny: One of my other attempts was PORT City 2 X 12 w/ Jensen Neos powered by 2:90. FAIL!

Anybody else out there using the GT1000/ FR212 combo?

Can't wait to read your take on the FR212!

 

[Coby]

I'm dreaming the day Matrix will produce the CFR12 Active!! Why only to have the Q12 active? Honestly, I don't want to carry with me an amp like the GT1000 when I switched to the Axe Fx exactly to reduce the gear that I have to carry at the gigs!

The more experienced of you can tell me if sounds better (I intend more like real amp) the CFR12 or the Xitone?
Thank you!

 

[Muad'zin]

I'm dying to try the Axe through the cabinet on my Dumbel clone. It's a 2x12 with an Eminence Tonker and a Swamp Thang. The Swamp Thang is super punchy, and the Tonker balances it out nicely. The only power amp I have is an old American Audio GX300, but it's all the way across the room in my old Stick rack and I don't have any XLR cables long enough to reach. It's lame, but the thought of unhooking all of one or other of the two rigs and moving it close enough to the other to hook the Axe to the GX300 is putting me off.

The GX300 won't be moved over to the Axe rack, since it's 2U and has a (loud) fan. So I'm looking for a 1U amp for the Axe. I'm probably just gonna bite the bullet and buy a GT800FX.

Then I'm gonna need a new 2x12 cabinet to house those Eminence speakers.

So get some longer XLR cables then? For $10 per cable you can probably get a decent 10 meter XLR cable. €6,60 for one on Thomann. You can never have such a thing as too many cables.

 

[Shredology]

So my question is whether the magic lies in the GT1000 (2U) or can I get the the same mojo out of the GT800 in a bit cheaper, more compact way?

 

[∞Fractals]

So my question is whether the magic lies in the GT1000 (2U) or can I get the the same mojo out of the GT800 in a bit cheaper, more compact way?

You can get the GT1000FX in either a 2U or 1U. 400 vs 500 watts per side (stereo) is up to you - it's only about 1db more of headroom I would imagine. (I play a 2U GT1000.) Bridged, is 800 vs 1000 ... no? Still just about a db of difference.

 

[krcassid]

Can't wait to read your take on the FR212!

Well, the early vote is not looking good for the FR212. My take on this cab? It is just a "bigger" FRFR solution, nearly identical to the "sound" of my RCF NX12s, just BIGGER, but with all the negatives I've come to associate with every other FRFR solution:

1.) Flat, lifeless (compared to cab w/ EVs)
2.) Way too much hi end from that big honking horn/ tweeter assembly
3.) way too much low end (probably the closed back/ ports)--I had to EQ low end heavily on every preset even with the cab decoupled from the floor.
3.) The neo speakers are loud (like my RCFs) but have none of the balls of the guitar cab w/ EVMs.

For those who want to tweak, maybe this can can be EQ'd to work (or maybe just find the right IR?) But, for what I want, this would be a lot of work when the EVs sound great with zero work.

I would hazard a guess that the time/ effort required to get the FR212 properly EQd would be a lot more than the EQ tweaks required to use an IR wit the EVs. Really, the IRs I've tried with the EVs are pretty good. Mostly, I just have to roll off a little low end.

If you are looking for an FRFR solution, this is probably as good as most. If you are looking for "cab in the room", you aren't going to find it here. The Matrix/ EVs have that, in spades.

So my question is whether the magic lies in the GT1000 (2U) or can I get the the same mojo out of the GT800 in a bit cheaper, more compact way?

Since I haven't tried the 800, I can't speak intelligently on this. But, I did talk to Andy at Matrix for a long time on this question. He said:

1.) There is a qualitative difference (not just power) between the 800 and the 1000
2.) He said there is also a qualitative difference between the 1000 and 1600. He said the 1600 is "better" but too powerful for the EVs. He said if you were using the FR212, the 1600 will sound better.

 

[∞Fractals]

1.) There is a qualitative difference (not just power) between the 800 and the 1000

So, what is the difference? That's a curious statement. How is the 1k qualitatively different, other than more juice? Being an owner, super interested in the answer.

 

[krcassid]

So, what is the difference? That's a curious statement. How is the 1k qualitatively different, other than more juice? Being an owner, super interested in the answer.

That's a question for Andy at Matrix. I'm just repeating what he told me. And, I may not be repeating accurately. I had to make same decision: 800 vs 1000. He said "get the 1000"

 

[Rex]

So, what is the difference? That's a curious statement. How is the 1k qualitatively different, other than more juice?

I haven't played with either the 800 or the 1000 personally, so I don't know what all the qualitative differences are, but there is an advantage to having more power available: transient response.

A bigger power amp with more clean power on reserve can reproduce transients more accurately, without clipping (and the compression that goes along with clipping). Our ears interpret those accurate transients as a "faster" response, although it's not really any faster. Any amp than can accurately reproduce 20 KHz can respond to a signal within 50 microseconds, which is already way faster than human hearing can detect.

 

[krcassid]

I haven't played with either the 800 or the 1000 personally, so I don't know what all the qualitative differences are, but there is an advantage to having more power available: transient response.

A bigger power amp with more clean power on reserve can reproduce transients more accurately, without clipping (and the compression that goes along with clipping). Our ears interpret those accurate transients as a "faster" response, although it's not really any faster. Any amp than can accurately reproduce 20 KHz can respond to a signal within 50 microseconds, which is already way faster than human hearing can detect.

And, I think transients are key here. The biggest difference between the Matrix and every other power amp I've tried (including the Bryston 4B ST) is that "presence", the "slap", the feeling of a real amp! I think the correct word here is attack. With the other power amps I've tried (which are just a few), it's like your compressor has an instant attack time and squishes your dynamics. This is the fastest, most in your face amp I've ever used. One of the reasons I'm a huge Hiwatt fan is that their 70s era amps have a similar quality. Monster attack, tons of clean power... I tell people "you've really never heard your low E string until you've played a DR103". I would say the Matrix has this quality, and more-so. That's a big statement from a guy who owns 3 70s era DR103s

 

[prometh]

Try an Atomic CLR. Too bad there're no passive ones available, though.

 

[krcassid]

Try an Atomic CLR. Too bad there're no passive ones available, though.

I must admit that I was close on trying the Atomic solution. But, after trying RCFs and similar wedges, I was afraid of getting similar results so I went to the Matrix solution. I know a lot of guys love their CLRs. It is hard for me to understand why that solution, utilizing Neo speakers and tweeters, is going to be a ton different than the FR212 or even my RCFs. I don't think you are going to get "cab in the room" from that wedge, are you? Again, never tried them but I have tried multiple wedges and multiple neo speakers. Interestingly, the Jensen Neos I had in my Port City 2 x 12s were pretty "lifeless" too. I still have not met a neo speaker I like. Put those Neos up against a Matrix/ EVM cab???

I understand, I am making a compromise. The EVs are not FRFR. And, again, when going to recording board or FOH, I am FRFR w/ IR. But, I want cab in the room. The EV/ Matrix combo is the only thing I've tried that does that and still gives you a great sound that is usable with IRs (albeit w/ a little tweaking).

 

[prometh]

The sound originates from a single location, instead of split frequencies. That might account for something more.

 

[krcassid]

The sound originates from a single location, instead of split frequencies. That might account for something more.

My RCFs are Coax and sound pretty good. As an FRFR solution, I think they are adequate. Are the CLRs better? Not sure. But, the FR212 is definitely not better than my RCFs, even w/ the Matrix powering it. I can pretty easily dial in the RCFs w/ minimal tweaking. The FR212 requires a lot of tweaking (but is not Coax). I just gotta say: the Matrix through the EVs puts everything else I've tried (which does not include CLRs) to shame as cab in the room. FRFR? I have yet to find an FRFR speaker that will do this (hence my OP) but I've not tried the CLR.