After 10 years, I'm done...

krcassid

Inspired
I finally figured out how to rock this thing!

After 10 years, dating from the Ultra, of whining and sniveling that the Axe just can't measure up to my amps and that there is no "truly great " FRFR solution, I believe I am at the end of my quest. I have found a solution that I gives me (maybe not others) everything I could want from the Axe, and more!.

First, let me say that the bar is set pretty high in my case. I've been playing for 40+ years. I own a lot of really nice amps and cabs. Among them:


2 1965 Fender Pro Reverbs
2 Blackface Fender Twins
3 Fuchs ODS (2 50s and a 100)
2 vintage AC30s
2 Vintage AC15s
3 1970s (Reeves era) Hiwatt DR103s
Pretty much everything Mesa Boogie made in the 80s including:
Mark 2c
Triaxis
Quad Pre
Studio Pre
2:90 Power
20/20 power
And many others...

I have about a dozen 2 X 12s with all different speakers so they were my IRs.

So, the Axe sat side by side with all these stereo pairs and, IMHO, has never measured up in the room.

I tried virtually every FRFR solution. Everything from Mackie 450s (10 years ago) to various monitors... The best I could find were the RCF NX12s I've been using. They sounded good. But, when I turn on the stereo Hiwatts??? The Axe paled. About 3-4 years ago, I pretty much stopped using my Axe FX except for FOH and in studio. So, when I want to "hear" an amp, I use amps. But, still, something kept telling me that there should be a solution.

Recently, I was reading one of Cliff's comments on speakers moving air etc and today I decided to do what everybody has been saying forever (call me stupid) and plugged my Axe into the Mesa 2:90 power amp and into 2-2 X 12s each loaded with an EV12L and an Alnico Gold. I was messing around getting the routing correct and had not even turned off global power amps or cabs when, BAM!!! Amp in the room all day!!! And, mixed with the FRFR signal from the RCFs, I had a pretty good solution!

Over the past several weeks, I've taken this about as far as I think it can go. I changed the 2 2 X 12s to EVM-12Ls only (no Golds). I started using my Bryston 4B ST for power into the 2 2X12s w/ EVs. Now, this was good! But, the Bryston did not get that loud and did not really have the OOMPH. A long discussion with Andy at Matrix ensued and he explained why neither the digital power amps in my various monitors or the Hi Fi Bryston was suited to doing what I wanted to do. So, I bought a Matrix GT1000FX (2U). All I can say is WOW!!! I know many of the rest of you caught on to the Matrix years ago. But, I thought: My RCFs have 900watts/ side, should be just as good, right? NOT!!!

The Matrix is an utter game changer thru the EVMs. I have never heard an amp so FAST, with so much attack and just loads of clean gain. It blew away the Bryston, the 2:90 and everything else I tried. I really can't say how overwhelmed I was at the difference the Matrix made. My Matrix arrived Mon. I don't think I've stopped playing except to eat and sleep all week. Just KILLER through the 2 X 12s w/ EVMs. I now have the "amp in the room" in a way that even makes the Hiwatts seem anemic and, the EVs are clean enough that they are CLOSE to FRFR, but not close enough to use a cab block (though, as others have noted, some IRs sound pretty darn good even through the EVM 2 x 12s. But, generally, I've got cab sims off. The only thing I wish is that I could use all my IRs. I still do this to FOH & recording (I have output 2 set up w/ a cab to go FRFR via FXL). Still, the sound I am getting now is so killer that I don't miss the IRs (and hope to learn to utilize them more effectively w/ the EVs).

One more possible step: Tomorrow, I get one of the Matrix FR212s. If this is 1/2 as good at FRFR as the 1600 is at SS power, I get my IRs back. Who knows? Maybe I use the EVs and the FR212s. Andy at Matrix swears the FR212 will blow me away but I will report back. Even if it doesn't, I am a happy man!

Be watching the classifieds for all those amps listed above!

Pic below shows the setup. The 2 X 12s on the bottom R & L have the EVs, Matrix in the middle
Matrix.jpg
 
Damn... even better than the Mesa 2:90?!?!? Wow... what other SS power amps have you tried? I've been wanting a Matrix for years as well and you're not making it any easier for me! ;-)
 
Damn... even better than the Mesa 2:90?!?!? Wow... what other SS power amps have you tried? I've been wanting a Matrix for years as well and you're not making it any easier for me! ;-)

I had never tried a SS amp until I tried my Bryston 4B ST about 3-4 weeks ago. It sounded good but it overheated. Wasn't up to this (even at 250w/ channel). The Matrix isn't "better" than the 2:90, it smokes it! These amps are different than anything I've used. I really like them. I kept hearing the expression "fast" but I didn't understand it as applies to power amps. Now I do. the attack and presence are really amazing. The 2:90 is a bummer because then you lose power modeling too. It was good. The Matrix is really in a completely different class. Still, if I were playing my Quad Pre, my Triaxis... the 2:90 is the ticket. EVs sound very good with this rig too.
 
Yes I also got rid of my 2:90 (heavy as a concrete block and expensive to retube) when I got my GT1000fx.
 
The Matrix makes a shitload of difference. Couldn't believe it when I first heard it. It even makes cab sims sound good going into regular guitar cabs.
 
Good to read you've found your dream rig.

I'm hooked on using a traditional cabinet on stage, especially when playing a small venue without P.A.
I do use FRFR, at home or when playing with wedges, but I find a traditional cab (with a neutral power amp) most satisfying, even at the cost of flexibility.

The GT000FX in my rig has performed flawlessly for years now. Even though I prefer the tone and feel of a Fryette Power Station (by a small margin only), the Matrix offers considerable advantages such as flexibility, size, weight and less maintenance (no tubes).

If you're always using the same cabinet, especially an open-back 1x12 or mono 2x12, Matrix's GM50 amp module is worth considering. It's one channel of the GT1000FX in a compact enclosure, which can be mounted in the back of a cabinet, essentially turning it into a combo (speaker(s) + power amp).
 
Cool to still find something new after 10 years, right Yek? I have been considering the Matrix too, thanks. Now I just need at least, one good cab. My Marshall Mc412 SUCKS. Celestion Rocket 50's are junk with an axe-fx.
 
I'm dying to try the Axe through the cabinet on my Dumbel clone. It's a 2x12 with an Eminence Tonker and a Swamp Thang. The Swamp Thang is super punchy, and the Tonker balances it out nicely. The only power amp I have is an old American Audio GX300, but it's all the way across the room in my old Stick rack and I don't have any XLR cables long enough to reach. It's lame, but the thought of unhooking all of one or other of the two rigs and moving it close enough to the other to hook the Axe to the GX300 is putting me off.

The GX300 won't be moved over to the Axe rack, since it's 2U and has a (loud) fan. So I'm looking for a 1U amp for the Axe. I'm probably just gonna bite the bullet and buy a GT800FX.

Then I'm gonna need a new 2x12 cabinet to house those Eminence speakers.
 
Good to read you've found your dream rig.
....
If you're always using the same cabinet, especially an open-back 1x12 or mono 2x12, Matrix's GM50 amp module is worth considering. It's one channel of the GT1000FX in a compact enclosure, which can be mounted in the back of a cabinet, essentially turning it into a combo (speaker(s) + power amp).

afaik the GM50 is discontinued. They (Matrix) are working on a board solution....
 
The Matrix makes a shitload of difference. Couldn't believe it when I first heard it. It even makes cab sims sound good going into regular guitar cabs.

This.

I have tried virtually every option I could think of. Some speakers better than others. Some power amps better than others. But, the Matrix is a new ballgame. It is not just louder or more powerful, it really has "snap" and I can keep a clean signal to 100+ dB w/ the EVs. Really amazing. I am not touting the Matrix. There may be other SS power amps that are similar. The Bryston was supposed to be one of the best. It melted at 100 dB into 4 ohms for 3 hours. Was too hot to touch in exact same rig (well ventilated). On it's way back to Bryston... The Matrix, although only rated 500w/ side into 4 (Bryston was 400/side into 4) barely tickles the green and runs cool. I talked to my tech guy. He said "Class D has changed everything".
 
I finally figured out how to rock this thing!

After 10 years, dating from the Ultra, of whining and sniveling that the Axe just can't measure up to my amps and that there is no "truly great " FRFR solution, I believe I am at the end of my quest. I have found a solution that I gives me (maybe not others) everything I could want from the Axe, and more!.

First, let me say that the bar is set pretty high in my case. I've been playing for 40+ years. I own a lot of really nice amps and cabs. Among them:


2 1965 Fender Pro Reverbs
2 Blackface Fender Twins
3 Fuchs ODS (2 50s and a 100)
2 vintage AC30s
2 Vintage AC15s
3 1970s (Reeves era) Hiwatt DR103s
Pretty much everything Mesa Boogie made in the 80s including:
Mark 2c
Triaxis
Quad Pre
Studio Pre
2:90 Power
20/20 power
And many others...

I have about a dozen 2 X 12s with all different speakers so they were my IRs.

So, the Axe sat side by side with all these stereo pairs and, IMHO, has never measured up in the room.

I tried virtually every FRFR solution. Everything from Mackie 450s (10 years ago) to various monitors... The best I could find were the RCF NX12s I've been using. They sounded good. But, when I turn on the stereo Hiwatts??? The Axe paled. About 3-4 years ago, I pretty much stopped using my Axe FX except for FOH and in studio. So, when I want to "hear" an amp, I use amps. But, still, something kept telling me that there should be a solution.

Recently, I was reading one of Cliff's comments on speakers moving air etc and today I decided to do what everybody has been saying forever (call me stupid) and plugged my Axe into the Mesa 2:90 power amp and into 2-2 X 12s each loaded with an EV12L and an Alnico Gold. I was messing around getting the routing correct and had not even turned off global power amps or cabs when, BAM!!! Amp in the room all day!!! And, mixed with the FRFR signal from the RCFs, I had a pretty good solution!

Over the past several weeks, I've taken this about as far as I think it can go. I changed the 2 2 X 12s to EVM-12Ls only (no Golds). I started using my Bryston 4B ST for power into the 2 2X12s w/ EVs. Now, this was good! But, the Bryston did not get that loud and did not really have the OOMPH. A long discussion with Andy at Matrix ensued and he explained why neither the digital power amps in my various monitors or the Hi Fi Bryston was suited to doing what I wanted to do. So, I bought a Matrix GT1000FX (2U). All I can say is WOW!!! I know many of the rest of you caught on to the Matrix years ago. But, I thought: My RCFs have 900watts/ side, should be just as good, right? NOT!!!

The Matrix is an utter game changer thru the EVMs. I have never heard an amp so FAST, with so much attack and just loads of clean gain. It blew away the Bryston, the 2:90 and everything else I tried. I really can't say how overwhelmed I was at the difference the Matrix made. My Matrix arrived Mon. I don't think I've stopped playing except to eat and sleep all week. Just KILLER through the 2 X 12s w/ EVMs. I now have the "amp in the room" in a way that even makes the Hiwatts seem anemic and, the EVs are clean enough that they are CLOSE to FRFR, but not close enough to use a cab block (though, as others have noted, some IRs sound pretty darn good even through the EVM 2 x 12s. But, generally, I've got cab sims off. The only thing I wish is that I could use all my IRs. I still do this to FOH & recording (I have output 2 set up w/ a cab to go FRFR via FXL). Still, the sound I am getting now is so killer that I don't miss the IRs (and hope to learn to utilize them more effectively w/ the EVs).

One more possible step: Tomorrow, I get one of the Matrix FR212s. If this is 1/2 as good at FRFR as the 1600 is at SS power, I get my IRs back. Who knows? Maybe I use the EVs and the FR212s. Andy at Matrix swears the FR212 will blow me away but I will report back. Even if it doesn't, I am a happy man!

Be watching the classifieds for all those amps listed above!

Pic below shows the setup. The 2 X 12s on the bottom R & L have the EVs, Matrix in the middle
Matrix.jpg
So are you still using speaker sims (IR)? If so which ones?
 
So are you still using speaker sims (IR)? If so which ones?

This is a REALLY interesting question and deserves a better answer than I can give you at this point. Honestly? My greatest fear was "losing my IRs". This was the primary reason I am using the EVM 12Ls. In my mind, they are as close to flat as you are going to find in a guitar speaker. I can tell you that the combo of EV/ Celestion Gold was not great with these higher powered amps. The Golds were distorting. So far, I have tried IRs thru the EVs and found them to be generally "better" but requiring EQ help. IE: they are bigger/ fatter, too much bass... But, you can accomplish much the same thing by simply EQing the amp w/o the cab (adding bass...). So, which is the better solution? I don't know yet. I've probably spent 80% of my time playing with NO IR. Keep in mind that, this is just for output to the cabs. I am still going to recording board or FOH direct w/ a cab FRFR. In the studio, I'm toying with a MS mic setup in the room, a pair of U87s in MS about 5' from the cabs. This is to try and catch that same power/ slap that the EVs have, but the FRFR does not. Jury still out on this.

I think (please someone correct me if I'm wrong) that an IR is just a complex EQ setting, right? If so, that EQ can be adjusted to taste, either with or w/o an IR, but it takes a little work. You cannot just slam IRs thru the EVs and call it good. Well, in a few cases, it's DAMN good. But, more research required.

So far, the IRs I've tried are the UR IRs that would typically go with that amp.

Interestingly, I found the same with the Mesa 2:90 thru the EVs. The Mesa sounded really great on some patches (IE Fenders but they are also 6L6, right?). But, it totally sucked on EF86 amps.

To sum up, I'd say the EVMs are a really good platform for most amps w/o IRs. But, in some cases, with a little tweaking, adding an IR is an improvement. But, it is definitely not "drag n drop" on the IRs.

For those considering this with other speakers, that has largely failed for me with the other power amps. Other speakers are just too colored. I think this is is very much about the combination of the Matrix/ EVMs. The other nice thing about EVs is that they can handle the power. If you went to any other speaker, you'd have to dial down the power of the Matrix to protect your speakers and, to some extent, I think that defeats the purpose. IE: I think a 4 x 12 w/ Greenbacks is still going to sound like a 4 x 12 w/ Greenbacks, even powered by a Matrix. I think the main thing here is getting A.) massive, clean and fast power comboined with B) a speaker tyhat is both able to handle the power and not break up while giving you the "flattest" tone possible. Now, I know an EVM is not "flat". But, it's working for me!
 
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