Advice needed

Guitarist9891

Inspired
Hello Every1

I just started working with a new Top 40 band, and using the axe II as my main rig. Now some shows where we bring our own PA I can go FRFR because we are using our own engineer. In places like hotel nightclub gigs, casinos etc the places usually have their own sound guys, so I want to have the option of using a backline, in case the FRFR is not the best option (not enough time during soundcheck etc etc). As of now I am going through the effects return of a Mesa F30 combo amp (not enough headroom, only 22 watts). So my choices are to either buy a separate power amp + guitar speaker, or buy a wedge and use that as backline when needed. My question is will a monitor be loud enough to be used as backline (when needed) and compete with a fairly loud drummer? And if yes which models? Also will it sound completely awful if some1 was to mic a wedge at a gig? (again not enough time during soundcheck, 8 people in the band, they just slap a mic and adjust eq/mix during our first song...)

Thanks to every1 taking the time to read it. Has anyone had experiences where they had to use their monitor wedges as backline?
 
should be.. then again, depends on your budget. i plug in to FOH and have my FRFR speaker as monitor on stage. used to have poweramp and guitar cabs before in small venues as backline... worked fine. but not sure about you... 8 people in the band and loud drummer... seems abit tricky to me.
 
I've been doing a lot of research on this lately, as I am considering whether to stay powered FRFR or go to a power amp/speaker lineup so I can do other things. On the FRFR front, I have come to the conclusion that the RCF12SMA would be the best current option (recognizing the Atomic CLR and Matrix powered FRFR speakers are supposed to be released very soon). I have read of and talked with users who feel it is awesome both as a floor monitor and on it's side as a backline. I think this is a better option than trying to maintain two sets of presets for a FRFR setup and a speaker backline setup with separate amps.

Here is a link that talks extensively about this speaker in those roles: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/37560-rcf-nx12-sma.html

I am working on possibly buying a Matrix amp to test using non-powered FRFR cabs, which I have not tried, as floor monitors or backlines. I'll let you know how it comes out!
 
Thanks for the response. I will definitely check out the monitor you suggested. On the matrix side of things I have a Matrix gm 50. I don't know how it would work with passive frfr solutions, but I did not like it with guitar speakers. It sounds very pleasant by itself but doesn't sit in the mix well.
 
I use a QSC KW122 1000W box for backline when playing in the band, and it is plenty load enough. For a really big gig I use a second one on the floor in from of me with a line from the Axe into one channel and a foldback feed from the desk into the second channel. They have individual volume controls so are perfect. NEVER EVER simply give the sound man a single feed from the Axe and rely on them to control your levels, it WILL be a disaster.

When the sound man comes and puts his mic in front of your speaker, quietly unplug it and plug the lead into the output of the Axe. He/She will never even know, I have even used a spare mic lead and plugged it into the mic so that it looks like its connected.

I used to have a Matrix and it is fantastic but the flexibility you get from having powered boxes can not be over-stated. My QSCs are more than adequate to use as FOH for any small/meduim venue. I simply use a small desk and run everything including the Axe through the desk.

Cheers S ( 0 )===:::
 
When the sound man comes and puts his mic in front of your speaker, quietly unplug it and plug the lead into the output of the Axe. He/She will never even know, I have even used a spare mic lead and plugged it into the mic so that it looks like its connected.
Cheers S ( 0 )===:::

Lol! I had to chuckle at this, knowing how some sound men can be! I run my output 2 to my stage rig so I can set my volume without affecting output 1. The I run OUt 1 to the mains and give them whatever level they want. Once you explain they will get the sound with no distortion, wind noise, feedback, or any other silliness, they have always been willing to try it. So far (a year and a half) it has always worked. Thankfully, most of the time it is our PA and our sound man. I also try to be understanding from their side. In my area I am one of only two guitarists using this type of rig (the other guy has an Eleven Rack).

But back to the OP, I think a powerful and versatile full range speaker is the best all around option. Sound man be damned :)
 
Uuumm I don't think unpluging the mic cable would be such a good idea :) the sound man has to set his channel differently depending on wether he is getting the mic feed or the feed from the axe. Actually about half the sound guys I ever worked with ask if I can go direct without even seeing the axe, and most of them don't know what the axe fx is anyway. I run output 2 tweaked for a tube power amp, sag at zero and bypassing the cabs, and out1 tuned to FOH. By the way the sounds have to be tuned pretty differently, in order to get similar results.
 
+1 on the rcf 12sma. No problem at all getting up over a loud drummer. Very happy with it.

How about if they HAVE to mic you. Will a wedge sound acceptable or disgusting? (miced sound from a wedge, I know it goes against the point of an frfr rig, but in situations I described in the beginning of the post, what if I am stuck in that situation)
 
Just offer the output on the Axe2, it will sound very well! even on lower volume it will be better then micing a cabinet ( sound without any balls...)
I am in the same position as you, i play in a top40 band in Holland, but i will never get the sound on my Mesa Thiele with EV emv12L speakers.

I am waiting for the Matrix and/or the CLR to come, then i will try those when possible.
You could try buying a FRFR cabinet with a rectangle design, if the wedge isn't you cup of tea....
Why should you try make sounds if they're already in there and out there :) ?


For the time being i use a GAE 15 inch fullrange floormonitor with the axe, it is not the greatest option but better then guitar cabs. ( for FRFR purpose )
I am not the type of guy who wants to make 2 sounds for 1 preset just to keep hold of my Mesa 2-ninety and my Thiele cabs..... ( also heavy to lift in and out my car )

So when i can afford it, and the right FRFR monitor is there for the right price i will go for that setup for sure! ( and i would have a nice back-up set haha )

But it all comes to taste, will-power and money ;-)
 
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Thanks for all the replies! Yes I guess I have decision to make wether to go with a wedge or tube power amp cab route. Thanks for all the info regarding wedges never actuall played my axe through one.
 
You'd have to do a bit different thinking, when it comes to your sound when you are playing full range......
The end result when it enters the mixing console, that sound, this is hard when you still think guitar cabs.......
When you do so, you will discover that the frequeny range is way different when you play FR.
With guitar cabs you will just hear till about 6 KHz instead of the full range spectrum.
 
Yes I agree completely. I have output 1 configured for a PA that I tweaked on my Yamaha NS 10. My signal is split after initial effects into 2 amps - one configured for PA one for a tube power amp.
 
Only problem is knowing when it is right, the PA response is not flat, that has a certain kind of sound, it is important to match your tone with that PA. ( when you use this all/most of the time )
Maybe it sounds great on your cabs or FRFR but over the PA i can be way different.
In my opion you don't want to add tone with the mixing console, maybe only cutting some annoying tones out....

so before you buy something, maybe you should check this PA first, set the sounds on your Axe to this PA.
Now you will have some tones to compare, when you think the sound is still the same you will have a good monitor for your purpose....
Unless you're playing with a different PAset each time, then it is nearly impossible haha....
 
i've never met a sound person who would mic a FRFR monitor. i can totally understand why it might happen, but at that point i would tell him that my axe has an xlr out, and just take the cable from the mic and slap it on the back of the axe.
 
i've never met a sound person who would mic a FRFR monitor. i can totally understand why it might happen, but at that point i would tell him that my axe has an xlr out, and just take the cable from the mic and slap it on the back of the axe.

Me neither..... that cant be done....... maybe with a coaxial speaker.....but why would you haha.....
 
I agree it would be incredibly stupid to mic an frfr cab, I was saying just in case, I've seen the stupidest things happen at gigs...
 
i've seen it happen!

i've also seen some idiot put a mic on the stage monitor.... to make it louder..... wtf?!
i also had someone put 2 mics on my lead singer.... so he would be louder.... hahahah omg.
 
For me,

Whether I use a backline pwr amp -> guitar cab or go direct is all about the gig.

For some gigs in small to med joints, there is nothing in the monitors but vox and very little to no guitar (or bass) in the FOH. It is expected the backline supplies the the majority of the sound for the guitar and bass.

Other than those types of gigs, I've never met a soundperson that doesn't understand what a guitar DI is. The only exception would be when a mobile truck is recording using a splitter snake or where they really need to mic something for a special purpose.

Richard
 
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