Advice needed on using the XLR D/A ouputs, into XLR A/D inputs of interface

G

Guitarplayer490

Member
Okay guys I have a question. I am currently in the process of upgrading my current interface, I currently have an Avid Mbox 3. I am currently looking at a few Focusrite interfaces, particularly the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 interface. If you're interested in the specs, here they are Liquid Saffire 56 | Focusrite

Now, I want to start doing sessions at 96K. I normally use the SPDIF output of the Axe fx into the SPDIF input of my Mbox. As you know though, the digital audio of the Axe fx is clocked at 48K, so I have to do sessions in Pro Tools at 48K, and like I said I want to start doing them in 96K. My questions is though, if it is okay to use the XLR D/A output of the Axe Fx, into the A/D XLR input of the Liquid Sapphire. Some people said don't do it, because of too much analog to digital and vice versa conversion, but this seems like the only way I can do sessions at 96K and still use the Axe FX. Personally, I didn't hear any difference in sound when I tested it out, but I'm asking you guys f it sonically makes a difference if I record this way. I mean Cliff did say that the Axe has very good D/A conversion, and the Sapphire also has very good pre-amps and A/D conversion, but I still wanna know if it's okay to record this way, just for peace of mind.
 
Guitarplayer490 said:
Lol thank you for easing my mind. I have no clue why but your one word answer made me laugh hard (in a good way haha)
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Haha good. Things are taken way too seriously around here lately.

I say yes, because imagine there was no digital output on the axe... How else would you get the signal out of the thing!

I've made recordings mostly using the xlr out into another interface with no problems or quality issues.

Just make sure you gain stage properly so you get the best signal to noise ratio without clipping your interface.
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
Haha good. Things are taken way too seriously around here lately.

I say yes, because imagine there was no digital output on the axe... How else would you get the signal out of the thing!

I've made recordings mostly using the xlr out into another interface with no problems or quality issues.

Just make sure you gain stage properly so you get the best signal to noise ratio without clipping your interface.
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I agree with what you said about the gain settings. I'm gonna play around with both the Axe fx and the interface, find the perfect non clipping input for the axe fx, and make sure the input of the interface won't have any unneeded gain or clipping from the axe fx so none of the sounds gets colored or unnecessarily boosted up if I was doing a clean patch or something like that.
 
If you have high quality analogue circuitry in your interface, it might even improve and/or warm up the sound. Guitar & all the amps the Axe is emulating, after all, are analogue.
 
notalemming said:
If you have high quality analogue circuitry in your interface, it might even improve and/or warm up the sound. Guitar & all the amps the Axe is emulating, after all, are analogue.
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You did make a good point of the Axe fx emulations as analog. I never thought of that but it is true. I will make sure whatever interface I purchase will have good analog gear inside of it.
 
I just made a video about input levels and output levels and making sure you don't clip in the Axe fx. check it out, link in my signature.
 
ALso look for one with a good clock. A lot of cheaper interfaces advertise they have the same converters as brand xyz but the clock & the analogue circuitry is where they really cheap out on.
 
Haha to be honest I have no idea what a word clock is, other than it has something to do with a slave and having the things with word clocks set at the same number. Other than that I have no idea what it's for or why I need one.
 
The better the clock, the less jitter you have which gives a better sound. All digital devices need a clock & when you have 2 or more, they need to all run off the same clock.
From the Bob Katz website Home :

Here are some audible symptoms of jitter that allow us to determine that one source sounds "better" than another with a reasonable degree of scientific backing:

It is well known that jitter degrades stereo image, separation, depth, ambience, dynamic range.

Therefore, when during a listening comparison, comparing source A versus source B (and both have already been proved to be identical bitwise):

The source which exhibits greater stereo ambience and depth is the "better" one.

The source which exhibits more apparent dynamic range is the "better" one.

The source which is less edgy on the high end (most obvious sonic signature of signal correlated jitter) is the "better" one.
 
Guitarplayer490 said:
Haha to be honest I have no idea what a word clock is, other than it has something to do with a slave and having the things with word clocks set at the same number. Other than that I have no idea what it's for or why I need one.
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I hear jitter mostly in the transients and tails. There is an audible lack of clarity on note hits and long note tails (decays) get zippery.
 
Drama said:
Just remember the Outputs are Line Level, not Mic level and you'll be fine.
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Excuse me if this is an easy question, I've only been recording for a little over a year and a half now. But if I use the XLR output of the Axe Fx, and it's line level, does that mean that on my interface, I turn the switch on to "line" instead of mic, on the mic/line combo inputs? And I'm guessing phantom power would be turned off. And as far as the gain settings on the interface, would I want a high or a low gain? Like on a scale of 1 to 10.
 
Guitarplayer490 said:
Excuse me if this is an easy question, I've only been recording for a little over a year and a half now. But if I use the XLR output of the Axe Fx, and it's line level, does that mean that on my interface, I turn the switch on to "line" instead of mic, on the mic/line combo inputs? And I'm guessing phantom power would be turned off. And as far as the gain settings on the interface, would I want a high or a low gain? Like on a scale of 1 to 10.
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Yes switch to line level.

Gain staging would involve the output of the AxeFx and the input of the next device, the audio interface. So high or low gain on your interface would depend on how hot you have the AxeFx II output.

Also, some interfaces have +4dbu and -10dbv modes for their inputs labeled and "high" and "low". Check the manual for your interface. You want the +4 setting.

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
Yes switch to line level.

Gain staging would involve the output of the AxeFx and the input of the next device, the audio interface. So high or low gain on your interface would depend on how hot you have the AxeFx II output.

Also, some interfaces have +4dbu and -10dbv modes for their inputs labeled and "high" and "low". Check the manual for your interface. You want the +4 setting.

Richard
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Alright for the interface I want, I just looked at the inputs and specs, and each input has an XLR labeled Mic, and right under it is the quarter inch cable labeled "line" Does that mean I have to get an XLR to line plug adapter if I'm using the Axe fx XLR output, or on the interface itself, I also saw the button for mic/line, so if I push that button to line, will it automatically switch to line on the XLR input even though it says "mic" next to it. Here is the interface so it makes it easier. Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 | Sweetwater.com
 
the mic/line button will select between mic and line level. most of the time, it doesn't select the actual physical connection to be used, but it just might. i haven't read the manual. so you should be able to use the XLR connection, select line, and have the right amount of signal. however, be prepared that selecting line selects only the 1/4" input. in that case, it doesn't hurt to just use a 1/4" cable.

generally speaking, you can use the XLR connections and adjust the gain settings on the interface/mixer so that you aren't clipping the inputs. so the actual gain settings on the interface are completely dependent on how much signal is being sent from your axe fx.

i usually start at 12:00 on the axe output knobs, then see how much input registers on the next device, mixer, interface, whatever.

if the interface gain is all the way down and it's clipping, i reduce the volume on the axe.
if the interface gain is all the way up and it's not enough level (not near clipping either), i increase the volume on the axe.

everything else in between is just a balancing act.
 
From here: http://d3se566zfvnmhf.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/downloads/7092/userguidels56eng1.pdf

From a very quick look at the manual, I think you have to switch to line as the input source and use the 1/4" inputs on the Saffire.

The Saffire accomodates unbalanced, 1/4", cables or balanced 1/4" TRS cables. Your options would be 1/4" outs of the AxeFx unbalanced -> 1/4" in of the Saffire or XLR out of the AxeFx -> 1/4" inputs of the Saffire using XLR -> 1/4" TRS cable or adapters.

FYI according to the manual, the Liquid channel DSP is not applied to the line inputs.
 
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