Adventures in fan replacement! IXP-34-16/12/8 and FD-FAN-60

Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

Gizmo said:
Considering that the box isn't vented, how useful do you think the fan is anyway? Not that I really want an easy access for dust, but shouldn't there be an exhaust vent if there is a fan?

According to the data sheet from Analog Devices, the ADSP-TS201S "TigerSHARC" processor is rated for operation with a case temp between -40C and +85C for the 600MHz (Axe-Fx Ultra) version and between -40C and +105C for the 500MHz (Axe-Fx) version.

Cliff's mentioned in the past that the processor draws a fairly small amount of power, and thus generates a small amount of heat (relative, for example, to the CPU of a modern personal computer). According to the data sheet, a passive heat-sink might have been enough thermal dissipation, but Fractal Audio played it safe and also added an internal fan.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

godprobe said:
Gizmo said:
Considering that the box isn't vented, how useful do you think the fan is anyway? Not that I really want an easy access for dust, but shouldn't there be an exhaust vent if there is a fan?
think of the heat as mud oozing out of a diamond, and the air as water getting funneled around.
i'd rather have some muddy water and a slightly dirty diamond than a mud-caked diamond.

why there's mud oozing out of a diamond, I don't know...
Like godprobe layed it out nicely, the purpose of the fan is not to vent the box nor lower the temperature inside the box but to simply push the hottest air away from the processor.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

godprobe said:
09c%20-%20montage.jpg

Is that the flux capacitor I see on the left?
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

Why are ya'll so concerned about fans touching the heatsinks? Have you not looked at your CPU lately in your COMPUTER?

They mount them ON THE HEATSINKS. Wonder why that route wasn't explored? I imagine the fan is blowing down & he didn't want to come up with a standoff to get that little bit of separation from the spinny things from the pointy things?
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

LAYGO said:
godprobe said:

Is that the flux capacitor I see on the left?

Not quite. :lol: Just the power supply. The magic of it all is hidden in the big flat green thing with the bits stuck on. :geek:
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

LAYGO said:
Why are ya'll so concerned about fans touching the heatsinks? Have you not looked at your CPU lately in your COMPUTER?

They mount them ON THE HEATSINKS. Wonder why that route wasn't explored? I imagine the fan is blowing down & he didn't want to come up with a standoff to get that little bit of separation from the spinny things from the pointy things?

Well, if i were actually mounting the fan on the heatsink and I didnt move my rack I wouldnt give it another thought. My only consideration is that I used rubber grommets to isolate the fan. The grommets by design have a flex to them which may allow the mounting screws to back out. Not worried, just going to be prudent and throw in some lock washers to keep the fan secure. My rack travels in my car twice a day...lots of vibration.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

LAYGO said:
Why are ya'll so concerned about fans touching the heatsinks? Have you not looked at your CPU lately in your COMPUTER?

They mount them ON THE HEATSINKS. Wonder why that route wasn't explored? I imagine the fan is blowing down & he didn't want to come up with a standoff to get that little bit of separation from the spinny things from the pointy things?
When I read this the first time, I was totally thinking, "hey... you're right... why am I concerned about that?"

Then, today, I remembered why...

The fan is mounted to the chassis, so any impact the chassis takes, the fan takes, and if the fan is touching the heatsink, attached to the processor, the processor would take the impact too.

---

Hopefully I'll have time today to stop by a hardware store and pick up some grommets and replacement screws and get a revised Adventure up this weekend.

[edit]
(Monday, 2009.02.02)
Change of plan! -- found a source that'll ship to the U.S. for that fan that Clawfinger mentioned, and after my mild disappointment with one of the SilenX fans, figured I'd give that one a try instead, especially since it's the same height as the original fan (should be no additional mods necessary).
[/edit]
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

godprobe said:
See why? (The stand-off still has a screw going into it from the bottom -- there's no way the original screw can go completely into the stand-off from the top.)

Misadventures Part 2...
So... why not shorten the original screw? Well... because it's a pain in the ass, that's why! And even after you do snap the end off of one of those screws after about ten minutes of effort (probably using completely the wrong tools for it...), the end would still have to be sanded and formed so that it's not wider than the screw-hole. Don't make the same mistake I did... just go with the rubber spacer solution.

I just bought longer bolts, end went through both sets of the fan's holes.

Can't imagine it being much quieter than it is now.

Still a little ticked off that, with something as pricey as my Ultra, I had to buy a quiet fan myself and install it myself.
Just another little Axe quirk I guess.
If you like the Axe, and I do, you're willing to put up with this type of crap.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

quick update...

been running a different fan for the past week (idled on 24/7)

intrigued by Clawfinger's earlier post about a "Fractal Design" fan (the name is coincidental, there's no relation to Fractal Audio)... I just had to try it out.
took a while, but found a place that would ship to the States at a good price and waited for it to arrive.

The Fractal Design 60mm FD-FAN-60 is rated at 19dBA, 16 CFM, and runs at 3000 RPM.

Summary: not worth it over the SilenX, but it provides an interesting mounting option.

According to the rated specs, the SilenX 16 should be quieter, push more air, and run slower (16dBA, 18 CFM, 2000 RPM). Judging just based on unplugging one, feeling the airflow, and plugging in the other one, I'm not sure if the CFM claim holds up... the FD definitely seemed to push more air. The dBA spec is fine though... the FD is obviously louder than the SilenX 16. However, it is quieter than the stock fan and, to me, more pleasing to the ear -- the stock fan sort of "whines" while the FD "hums." It rarely bothered me when I was sleeping just a few feet away from it -- audible, but not annoying.

It's the same height as the SilenX -- 25mm. The stock fan is only 10mm tall.

Most intriguing about the FD is that it comes with regular small screws as well as small rubber mounts that have screw threads on them. The SilenX has long rubber mounts, but they aren't threaded. So... I tried out these rubber mounts since I still hadn't stopped by the hardware store to pick up proper rubber spacers and proper-length screws.

It's really weird to screw in a rubber screw, but as long as you have a screwdriver with a neck thin enough to fit through the fan's mounting holes, it shouldn't be a problem. But it does take a while since the screwdriver doesn't really latch into it and is mostly tightening the rubber through friction.

After screwing in the rubber screw mounts (already attached them to the fan), you can pull at the fan with a decent amount of force, and they do not come loose -- I was kind of surprised that they didn't, to be honest -- they really *are* screwed in. So, if you're patient enough to do that... no additional stop at the hardware store is necessary.

One caveat about the rubber screw mounts... they add a lot of rubber between the original stand-offs and the fan itself. Because of that, the fan is *much* closer to the CPU's heatsink than before... probably only about 5mm of space. I'm not sure if I would trust that in a gigging rig, but it'd probably be fine for studio work. Pressing pretty hard down on the closed Axe-Fx cover didn't seem to affect things though, so it might even be okay in a gigging rig. (I'm doing this on a pre-owned Axe-Fx that's probably out of warranty, btw. "Do not try this at home", etc.)

So... now... I'm thinking of trying a 10mm height fan (can only find one half-decent dBA one on Newegg, the Evercool), as well as the 8 CFM SilenX for comparison. Considering heat-sink-only options too... but from what I've read so far, most of the 25mm BGA heat sinks seem to be predicated on the idea that there will be *some* airflow.

Anyway... I'll try to keep this thread updated with whatever I end up doing, including more pics/audio vids later.

And again, for anyone that's worried about a noisy fan... the stock fan really isn't that bad. I'm just picky. Picky enough to import a Swedish fan from Italy to California. :p
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

I installed an IXP-34-16 this week; here are a couple suggestions for getting any fan/Axe running as quietly as possible:

1. If using metal screws, use something to eliminate direct contact between screw heads & fan as well as fan & Axe lid stand-offs. I cut the flat parts off the 4 silicon mounts supplied with the fan and made a hole in the center with fingernail clippers to turn them into silicon washers between fan & stand-offs. For screwhead-fan spacers I used plastic/rubber tubing like godprobe did in the original post.



2. Place thin material of your choice around the top & outer edges of the Axe walls (or the inside walls of the lid if you wish) to ensure solid contact with the lid midway between screws. With the new fan mounted using shorter screws and no dampening material, there was some hum/buzz that could be changed/reduced by pushing or pulling on the back lip of the cover, so I figured there was some metal-on-metal vibration there. I used painter's masking tape spanning most of the distance between screws on the sides & back of the unit.

 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

Bakerman said:
2. Place thin material of your choice around the top & outer edges of the Axe walls (or the inside walls of the lid if you wish) to ensure solid contact with the lid midway between screws. With the new fan mounted using shorter screws and no dampening material, there was some hum/buzz that could be changed/reduced by pushing or pulling on the back lip of the cover, so I figured there was some metal-on-metal vibration there. I used painter's masking tape spanning most of the distance between screws on the sides & back of the unit.

I was noticing and trying to eliminate that yesterday too. The masking tape is an excellent idea!
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement - SilenX iXtrema IXP-34-16

godprobe said:
Bakerman said:
2. Place thin material of your choice around the top & outer edges of the Axe walls (or the inside walls of the lid if you wish) to ensure solid contact with the lid midway between screws. With the new fan mounted using shorter screws and no dampening material, there was some hum/buzz that could be changed/reduced by pushing or pulling on the back lip of the cover, so I figured there was some metal-on-metal vibration there. I used painter's masking tape spanning most of the distance between screws on the sides & back of the unit.

I was noticing and trying to eliminate that yesterday too. The masking tape is an excellent idea!

I've had no issues with mine. I used longer screws that go through both holes. Silent bliss!
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement: IXP-34-16/IXP-34-12/FD-FAN-60

So I've been through the 16dB SilenX (with ghetto-style rubber grommets, chronicled in the first post) and wasn't happy with it. Then I tried the Fractal Design (no association with Fractal Audio here) fans on a lark and they had a more "pleasant" sound and cool rubber screws, but the noise was still an issue.

Now, I'm fresh off of an install of the 12dB SilenX, the IXP-34-12, and it's great! There's still a tiny hint of the rattle that I also noticed on the 16, but the noise of the fan itself is nearly nonexistent. I can definitely recommend this fan as a replacement. I ordered from Directron since that was the cheapest for me after factoring in taxes and shipping. And I also ordered a pack of four of the "Heavy Duty Rubber Grommets" for the fan. Other shops seem to have the same grommets, and sometimes other options as well. Those got placed between the fan and the stand-off attached to the Axe-Fx lid, and the original fan screws were used.

I can still tell there's a fan spinning inside, but the ambient noise of it is no more than that of my studio monitors.

Next up, I'm going to try the 8dB version with the FD-FAN's rubber screws. However, I will never actually recommend the 8dB since the CFMs that it pushes are so low, it could very well lead to the Axe-Fx's CPU wearing out much more quickly.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement: IXP-34-16/IXP-34-12/FD-FAN-60

javajunkie said:
wear out?
excessive temperatures slowly destroying it over time -- as happens with PC CPUs and GPUs and pizza.
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement: IXP-34-16/IXP-34-12/FD-FAN-60

godprobe said:
javajunkie said:
wear out?
excessive temperatures slowly destroying it over time -- as happens with PC CPUs and GPUs and pizza.

How? Unless it heating well over specs (it would probably exhibit unstable behavior in that case). Cliff has even mention that it would probably be fine w/o it in normal circumstances (not recommending that). Excessive heat and cold could break a solder, but the dsp wouldn't be destroyed?
 
Re: Adventures in fan replacement: IXP-34-16/IXP-34-12/FD-FAN-60

javajunkie said:
godprobe said:
javajunkie said:
wear out?
excessive temperatures slowly destroying it over time -- as happens with PC CPUs and GPUs and pizza.

How? Unless it heating well over specs (it would probably exhibit unstable behavior in that case). Cliff has even mention that it would probably be fine w/o it in normal circumstances (not recommending that). Excessive heat and cold could break a solder, but the dsp wouldn't be destroyed?
To be perfectly frank and honest...
dunno. :p

(When I was reading the specs of the processor and various heatsink alternatives for that type (form factor) of proc though, all of them seemed to imply that there was definitely going to be some sort of airflow in their end product.)
 
8dB is definitely even more silent. With ambient daytime room noise (including a computer in my room that's noticeably quieter than the stock Axe-Fx fan), I have to be six inches away from the Axe-Fx to even detect the fan noise. Drawing something with a pencil makes more noise than this fan.
 
Have you tried the longer screws for the SilenX IXP-34-12 60mm ??
6/32 - 1.25" screws - Home Depot
#60 "O" rings - Home Depot
 
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