Advantages 4 cable method vs straight in to amp

gsegal

Inspired
What are the sound advantages if any? Besides being able to rout the amp block and place it anywhere you want in the chain.
 
Biggest advantage is being able to place effects before the amp's input, and also in the amp's effects loop.
 
It also lets you choose between your amp's preamp and the amp sims in the Axe-FX.
 
Delays, reverbs and modulations generally will be better in the loop of an amp between the pre amp and power amp. Compressors, distortion, drives and wah generally better into the input of the preamp. 4CM gives you this possibility of some effects in the front of the amp and some in the loop. With an AXE or modeller you can also use a preamp of choice rather than the amps preamp. Also it helps the economy as more cables are required :p
 
Delays, reverbs and modulations generally will be better in the loop of an amp between the pre amp and power amp. Compressors, distortion, drives and wah generally better into the input of the preamp. 4CM gives you this possibility of some effects in the front of the amp and some in the loop. With an AXE or modeller you can also use a preamp of choice rather than the amps preamp. Also it helps the economy as more cables are required :p

How would you bypass the amp pre?
 
4CM can be a little confusing...

How would you bypass the amp pre?

gsegal,

I know the routing/signal-flow with the 4CM gets a bit confusing, (I still carry a hand-drawn diagram just in case - lol!) but it might help you to understand better if you envision it as putting your actual-amp into the FX-Loop of your Axe-FX II (or whatever processor you'd be using it with - I used to use a Boss GT-10 with my Blackstar HT-40 combo, and it worked/works great!) Thus if you didn't want to use the actual/physical amp's preamp-stage, you'd bypass the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop in your preset, and then the virtual preamp (whichever amp you programmed into your Axe-FX II) would then route directly from it's grid/mixer-output to the physical-amp's FX-return ONLY, thus powering the Axe-FX's line-level signal....Got it? Conversely, in a preset where you WANTED to use your actual-amp's preamp-section, you would enable the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop, but NOT program/enable any amp/preamp model in the Axe-FX II preset. Then you could add effects as desired, but the actual-amp's FX-loop would function a bit more traditionally.

I hope this helps...

Bill
 
I sold my tube combo but when I had it I did a lot of experimenting with 4cm. Placing AxeFx effects in the loop of the combo always worked great with minimal fuss. Placing the AxeFx effects in front of the combo's preamp was more problematic in terms of noise (I think because the AxeFx loop send (output 2) to the front of the combo amp did not replicate a typical guitar signal (I was using the ultra at the time - sound experts here may add more explanattion). To help with this I purchased one of these ( Radial X-Ampâ„¢ Active Re-Amplifier ) to go between the AxeFx loop send and front of combo amp. It reduced the noise and made the AxeFx 'before preamp" models (i.e. Drive, Wah, compression) seem to interact better with the combo I had. I kept this little box as I'm still gassing for a small tube amp even though I don't really need one (yikes!).
 
gsegal,

I know the routing/signal-flow with the 4CM gets a bit confusing, (I still carry a hand-drawn diagram just in case - lol!) but it might help you to understand better if you envision it as putting your actual-amp into the FX-Loop of your Axe-FX II (or whatever processor you'd be using it with - I used to use a Boss GT-10 with my Blackstar HT-40 combo, and it worked/works great!) Thus if you didn't want to use the actual/physical amp's preamp-stage, you'd bypass the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop in your preset, and then the virtual preamp (whichever amp you programmed into your Axe-FX II) would then route directly from it's grid/mixer-output to the physical-amp's FX-return ONLY, thus powering the Axe-FX's line-level signal....Got it? Conversely, in a preset where you WANTED to use your actual-amp's preamp-section, you would enable the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop, but NOT program/enable any amp/preamp model in the Axe-FX II preset. Then you could add effects as desired, but the actual-amp's FX-loop would function a bit more traditionally.

I hope this helps...

Bill
Thanks bill it helps, I'm going to try it tomorrow!
 
I sold my tube combo but when I had it I did a lot of experimenting with 4cm. Placing AxeFx effects in the loop of the combo always worked great with minimal fuss. Placing the AxeFx effects in front of the combo's preamp was more problematic in terms of noise (I think because the AxeFx loop send (output 2) to the front of the combo amp did not replicate a typical guitar signal (I was using the ultra at the time - sound experts here may add more explanattion). To help with this I purchased one of these ( Radial X-Ampâ„¢ Active Re-Amplifier ) to go between the AxeFx loop send and front of combo amp. It reduced the noise and made the AxeFx 'before preamp" models (i.e. Drive, Wah, compression) seem to interact better with the combo I had. I kept this little box as I'm still gassing for a small tube amp even though I don't really need one (yikes!).

Hey if you ever want a small light but powerfull combo try red plate black loop. That is one awesome amp!
BlackLoop
 
Great info Bill....

I just got my AxeII the other day and am just starting to experiment with the 4CM on a Splawn Quickrod. I have setup the AxeII on my desktop with it going into my M-audio Fast track pro into my monitors and it sounds amazing.
I am still learning the ropes on the grid and setup etc.
What would be helpful is if I could see a sample screenshot on Axe edit with a typical 4CM setup (OD pedal<AMP input><effects loop>reverb and delay<effects loop>AMP..... or how it should be envisioned?
I used a 4CM on my TC G-system and building the grid however I want was 'not an option' so this is great to be able to utilize both with the amp head and also the amp return.



gsegal,

I know the routing/signal-flow with the 4CM gets a bit confusing, (I still carry a hand-drawn diagram just in case - lol!) but it might help you to understand better if you envision it as putting your actual-amp into the FX-Loop of your Axe-FX II (or whatever processor you'd be using it with - I used to use a Boss GT-10 with my Blackstar HT-40 combo, and it worked/works great!) Thus if you didn't want to use the actual/physical amp's preamp-stage, you'd bypass the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop in your preset, and then the virtual preamp (whichever amp you programmed into your Axe-FX II) would then route directly from it's grid/mixer-output to the physical-amp's FX-return ONLY, thus powering the Axe-FX's line-level signal....Got it? Conversely, in a preset where you WANTED to use your actual-amp's preamp-section, you would enable the Axe-FX's external FX-Loop, but NOT program/enable any amp/preamp model in the Axe-FX II preset. Then you could add effects as desired, but the actual-amp's FX-loop would function a bit more traditionally.

I hope this helps...

Bill
 
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