Active Pickups - My Theory

MetalSlab

MetalSlab

Inspired
I have made some observations regarding active pups:

I have eight guitars. Three of them have EMG's. Those three guitars sound significantly 'better' than the others through the Axe-Fx - across all genres and playing styles it seems.

Curiously, those same three guitars sounded the worst through my boutique and vintage tube amps.

This ties in with my theory that EMG's are engineered to be used with high-end EQ capabilities. Their response is generally flat compared to most non-active pickups. I think of them in the same light as an FRFR speaker system - They require some dialling in but are capable of so much more with a unit like the Axe-Fx.

This is probably why they are commonly associated with modern metal and dismissed by purists as sounding 'sterile'; however, I believe that their tone-shaping ability allows for much more diversity than they are given credit for.

As a sidenote, I am selling my '84 Les Paul and my Clapton Strat, amongst others - as I have now done with all of my tube amps.
 
I have never considered my EMG's flat by any stretch. I like EMG's and they sound different than my passives but not better. I will say that my active equipped guitars are more consistent but not flat. An EMG 85 sounds different from 81 with good reason. Now, if you like EMG's try running them at 18 volts. A little more headroom and maybe a small presence peak. Its not notably different but you can hear a slight difference.
 
EMG81, SD Jeff Beck, P90 Alumitone, Dano Lipsticks, SD lil'59, a bunch of GFS pickups - all sound good through the Axe here.
 
Following this thread closely. Ive heard the EMG 81 , especially the 18volt mod works really well with the axe fx. Can the pros substantiate!
 
Jack Napalm said:
I have never considered my EMG's flat by any stretch. I like EMG's and they sound different than my passives but not better. I will say that my active equipped guitars are more consistent but not flat. An EMG 85 sounds different from 81 with good reason. Now, if you like EMG's try running them at 18 volts. A little more headroom and maybe a small presence peak. Its not notably different but you can hear a slight difference.
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Yes, my USA Jackson Kelly is volt modded to 18V w/ EMG 85/81's - incredible cleans / great for leads.

I agree with you in that EMG's are not 'flat' per se (I was actually at the point where I would avoid using my EMG 81's through my tube amps as it was like an icepick to the ears whereas the 89's and 85's were tolerable). I would maintain; however, that they do not exhibit the character or response variance of most passives - especially vintage / vintage styled pups.

You mentioned consistency - this is another positive point for me. I don't find that it is workable to have different patches or even PEQ blocks to suit all of my passive guitars. Some sound generally muddy (the LP's), some sound generally thin (strats) and require an intensive dialling process to be able to use a standard or generic bank. I know that the axefx provides ways to overcome this (global eq's, filters, etc) but I can see myself spending more time fiddling than playing.

For these reasons also, I find them 'better' to work with when using the Fractal processor.


DonPetersen said:
EMG81, SD Jeff Beck, P90 Alumitone, Dano Lipsticks, SD lil'59, a bunch of GFS pickups - all sound good through the Axe here.
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My passive guitars are certainly no slouches through the axe (as I am sure yours are not either!), but I have resolved that I much prefer using the actives.

I am now essentially gearing towards selecting the right guitar for the track/situation by 'feel', playing style and manipulation alone (i.e. fret size, scale, string gauge, neck, weight, bridge, action, etc) and leaving tone and dynamic characteristics completely up to the axefx. This feels so wrong as I was once a bit of purist, but at the same time, makes so much more sense now.


I was wondering whether anyone else has had the same experience?
 
It's fine to prefer the actives, but to think that they "work better" with the Axe-FX is a little ridiculous. I haven't found them to work any better or worse, just different (the same as running them into a tube amp). And they are anything but flat...

D
 
dk_ace said:
It's fine to prefer the actives, but to think that they "work better" with the Axe-FX is a little ridiculous.
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Don't try to simplify my point. I am suggesting that I find them 'better to work with' using rack effects and complex EQ. This is clearly a very subjective notion, as is your assertion that I am being ridiculous.

Re: 'flat':

There's a built-in preamp in an active pickup, which means the pickup itself will have to be less powerful when it comes to signal output (there's still a passive pickup in there, it's just boosted with a battery-driven amplifier). This has two main positive effects over a passive pickup; first is that the pickup magnet doesn't have to be so strong, so it increases sustain by not damping the string's movement with the magnetic pull. Second is that the number of coil wraps around the magnetic poles also determines the output signal strength, and more coil wraps means more self-inductance in the coil which lowers the high frequency roll-off point, which is why the hottest passive pickups have such a dark sound - the highest treble is not there.

There's also the resonance of a passive pickup, which kind of draws a curve that's flat in the low end, starts rising steep when approaching the resonant frequency, peaks there, and then rolls of quickly near zero - this is what makes the "voice" of the pickup, with an active amp circuit and some negative feedback, the frequency response can be flattened so that there's both extended high frequency response, and less of that inherent peak of the coil resonance. So tonally, an active pickup has wider range and more even response throughout - it's more 'hi-fi'.... a recipe for enhanced tone-shaping when using a system like the Axe-fx.


I am not knocking passives - just sharing my observations and logic.
 
I just took the EMG's (81/60) out of my ESP after 10 years of using them. I put in Alumitone standard humbuckers and wired them with 2 separate volume knobs, each with a push/pull coil tap. The first time I plugged in I thought, "Dear lord this was a huge mistake" because it sounded so different. The alumitones are completely transparent. I now hear strings and wood. I can't really explain it more than that... Lace claims it's "HD for your guitar" and that's actually a pretty accurate description. Other pickups color your tone, usually in pleasing ways. The alumitones are so transparent I was instantly worried that I would need to spend an unimaginable amount of time trying to dial in the natural EQ curve of a passive pickup.

My current presets sounded like trash. The gain was harsh and had that sound that most people claim is "too digital". Through the years I've noticed that the "digital" sound is normally some horrible form of improper EQ and Gain Staging, so I started tearing down my patches. I bypassed everything except the amp and cab and listened to how it responded to these new pickups. I can tell you without a doubt, EMG's were FAR less malleable and definitely NOT flat. With the EMG's, I had to find amp models that responded well to the guitar and shape the EQ to work well with the natural sound it was putting out. With the alumitones, I am doing the opposite. I feel like I'm dialing in what the amp sounds like and the alumitones are providing a flat signal, which is going resonate well in any voicing.

I think most pickups have a sound to them and you have to dial in your models to play to those strengths, EMG's included. With the alumitones, the individual amp models really are unique. The flatness of the alumitone is VASTLY more flexible than trying to tweak to specific resonant peaks of the EMG's. I can go from metal to country and everything in between with these; provided I spend the time with axe fx to setup amp tones for the different styles. With EMG's I could not do that due to the aforementioned inflexibility. My wife (bass player) said, "Hey! Now it doesn't sound so metal when you're playing 500 miles!" and she's right. The clean tone is a whole different rant... it's so clean and clear. I'm still tweaking on my clean and lead channels.

Flatness and Transparency are both a blessing and curse. It's absolutely wonderful if you want to put the time in. It's the most horrific thing in the world if you just want to plug in and play. Sorry for the long post, but saying EMG's are better or worse than any other pickup for use with the AXE FX really depends on your definition of "better".

Edit: Also, I have a lot more sustain with these pickups and they're FAR less microphonic. Previously, I could hear my strap creaking on the wood of the guitar, but that is much less noticeable now. Granted, I didn't really test it that much. I just turned off my gate and moved around for 5 seconds to see if I could hear anything and I did not. With the EMG's it was driving me crazy...
 
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I had no intent of turning this into a pickup manufacturer war - I thought this forum would have been less susceptible to that sort of debate.

I am certain that there will be many exceptions to the rule - I haven't used Alumitones, but from what you say I am sure that they are quite wonderful. Really though, if you take into consideration the spirit of the idea I am putting forward, you could include them as being wide-range pickups and the same general principles would apply.

Forget the brand names - I am raising what I believe is a significant observation in that active pickups (wait; I should rephrase that to include any obscure passives with a wide freq range - let's use 'wide range' pickups) are better suited to the Axe-Fx for the reasons above.

I have a feeling this may have gone over everyone's head.... I also note that this thread has been deemed as unrelated to the AxeFx and has been cast away into the depths of the 'lounge'.

Oh well...
 
We cool dude. I too have no intent of turning this into a pickup war.

I simply wanted to state that my observations about active pickups, specifically those you mentioned, are neither better nor worse for use with the Axe FX and back them up with my personal experience. You simply prefer EMG's for use over the passive pickups in your other guitars. To you, "better" means sounds better. To me, "better" means more flexible.

Every pickup has it's strengths and weaknesses. It's about finding what helps you accomplish your tonal goals and using them for that purpose. I simply disagree with your statements about their flatness, their design to be used with lots of EQ, or how diverse they are as my experience is exactly the opposite. I completely agree that, theoretically, a pickup with a wide range and no resonant peak will take heavy EQ'ing to move the voicing of the guitar a lot better than one that has a very limited range. I do not believe the pickups have to be active to accomplish this nor do I believe that active pickups generally do this better.
 
I have over twenty guitars most of them loaded with passives. I have two with EMGs (85 and 81 sets) and I don't like them through the Axe-FX. This matches up with the fact I don't like the EMGs through my tube amps (Egnater Mod50, Triaxis) either. Your observation is your preference and there is nothing wrong with that of course, but my preferences are obviously different. It is interesting that you prefer the EMGs with the Axe-FX and not the tube amps. Perhaps the patches are dialed in better for EMGs.
 
i used emgs for years and made the switch to blackouts. I have struggled to get them to work perfectly with the axe because of the lows generated by them. I started running mark days global eq and being less bass heavy in my patches. I think they are the most brutal pickup on the market and sound insane for high gain. They do feel my organic and actually sound and respond better than my emgs. i think they have a fuller frequency response and dont have the strange out of phase characteristics that the emgs have. But if i were to buy a new guitar i would try a high output to mid output passive pickups just to try something new. With an extremely high output pickup you have to be as considerate if not more with how you treat gain and master volume values. I do find that my blackouts do respond better with high gain and mid gain tones when a overdrive is simulated hitting the front end of the amp. Maybe its just me...i think im used to using alot of gain and using high output pickups but i feel that what these pickups are meant for. Are my blackouts flat? no i think they have a even tonal range and some great low and high mids that the emgs are missing, they have more bass than any other pickup i have used, yet it's extremely usable with the axe. If any one was in the market for a brutal pickup with a feel thats totally different then a passive, that can be brutal and brown sounding at the same time i would buy a pair of blackouts. Seymour duncan has even come out with a blackout preamp you can pair with your passives.
 
i have an ESP which i love and it has two EMG 81s. i have seen a lot of ppl using a 85/81 combination. why would it be better to have the 85 in the neck position instead of an 81?
 
geamala said:
i have an ESP which i love and it has two EMG 81s. i have seen a lot of ppl using a 85/81 combination. why would it be better to have the 85 in the neck position instead of an 81?
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It isn't better, just different. The 81 is ceramic, the 85 is alnico 5, and just as with passives it is quite common to go for a ceramic bridge and an alnico neck. (for example, Petrucci's Crunchlab/Liquifire set). The Alnico neck, be it active or passive, will generally give a warmer smoother tone.
 
My USA Strats and Teles sound great, not thin. Your post is "your" opinion only. Not fact.Not logic. Your opinion. The things you mention can also be interpeted to work "in reverese"- Just depends the way you spin it.Period.
Better suited for the axefx? Nope, not true. Not knocking actives pups, just sayin'
 
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DonPetersen said:
yawn.

Bill Lawrence Website
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I take it your "yawn" comment was meant to be either condescending or just rude. You'll notice in my post I used the word "generally". In a 2 line response to a question it really isn't possible to go in to every possibility and minutiae of pickup design, but in general, pickups made using alnicos will be made to sound smoother and warmer than ceramics.
 
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