achieving "that metal tone"

E

etzel

Inspired
i covered basically almost all my gainy sounds with my standard, but hardly can work out a aggresive metal tone. i know people were talking about difficulties but i would like to ask if there is something specific in getting there?

i listened to clawfinger's demos with different amps and there has to be something that made even the smothest amp a "animal". what do you use: is EQ the answer? do u use parrallel runnings of 2 amps? nether this way i could come up with something killer(even if i use it for only one song). it is tough, but not enought tight...

can you give me some tricks and tips?

PS i use my axe with the power amp of my amp and 2X12 cabinet
 
etzel said:
i covered basically almost all my gainy sounds with my standard, but hardly can work out a aggresive metal tone. i know people were talking about difficulties but i would like to ask if there is something specific in getting there?

i listened to clawfinger's demos with different amps and there has to be something that made even the smothest amp a "animal". what do you use: is EQ the answer? do u use parrallel runnings of 2 amps? nether this way i could come up with something killer(even if i use it for only one song). it is tough, but not enought tight...

can you give me some tricks and tips?

PS i use my axe with the power amp of my amp and 2X12 cabinet
Click to expand...

The right guitar, pickups, and very important: tuning!

Makes a huge difference.

CJ
 
thanks for the answers

yes, i liked the clips. for the moment i havent had the possiblity(interface problem) to download patches, but i was trying beyond that to understand how you do it guys.

i dont want just to copy. i wanna know the basic ingredients and the way you got there. clawfinger mentioned the drive block, some settings of it and the eq stuff. but beside that, not too much.

so, here was the question: can you just make a simple amp with a ts808 boosting sound tight and aggressive?
 
etzel said:
thanks for the answers

yes, i liked the clips. for the moment i havent had the possiblity(interface problem) to download patches, but i was trying beyond that to understand how you do it guys.

i dont want just to copy. i wanna know the basic ingredients and the way you got there. clawfinger mentioned the drive block, some settings of it and the eq stuff. but beside that, not too much.

so, here was the question: can you just make a simple amp with a ts808 boosting sound tight and aggressive?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can but it doesn't sound right to me without some EQ also. It really depends on your guitar and pickups too though. What are you using?
 
etzel said:
yes, i liked the clips. for the moment i havent had the possiblity(interface problem) to download patches, but i was trying beyond that to understand how you do it guys.
Click to expand...

If you like the basic tone, just download the patch and open it in the Editor. Then you can see how its set up and all the settings for the various blocks. If you *really* like it, you could always recreate the patch manually in your AxeFX, even if you don't have a working midi interface.
 
etzel said:
thanks for the answers

yes, i liked the clips. for the moment i havent had the possiblity(interface problem) to download patches, but i was trying beyond that to understand how you do it guys.

i dont want just to copy. i wanna know the basic ingredients and the way you got there. clawfinger mentioned the drive block, some settings of it and the eq stuff. but beside that, not too much.

so, here was the question: can you just make a simple amp with a ts808 boosting sound tight and aggressive?
Click to expand...

I understand completely which is why I would suggest you download the preset once your interface is working properly. I think you can learn more by looking through the signal chain and settings than for me to babble about my approach. :D

Your question is quite broad, so I'd say the answer is yes. There are a lot of contributing factors but sure, you can get a nice, tight sound with a TS808 for the boost.
 
etzel said:
so, here was the question: can you just make a simple amp with a ts808 boosting sound tight and aggressive?
Click to expand...

Definitely. All my heavy patches have a drive block in front of the amp sim (I like the two TS sims the best, drive at 0, level full). It makes a big difference and really tightens up the sound and adds punch.

For me, it's the only way to get "Balls & Chunk". :twisted:
 
i played around taking advices for real and is coming together. there is definitively need for the TS boost into amp...

i'll play more with the eq, but have some results
 
I don't use a "drive" block in front of a high gain preamp to get a nice metal tone.
Have you engaged "DRIVE BOOST" on the preamp? (hit ENTER on the preamp DRIVE).
Gets plenty of gain on the USA LEAD2 (or 1), or DASMETAL, METAL and some of the others too.
Also, you may want to get extra depth and presence by hitting the "DEEP" and "BRIGHT" options.

I'm quite new to the Axe-Fx, but two amps in this way is what I'm experimenting with, liking it so far.
 
hideous said:
I don't use a "drive" block in front of a high gain preamp to get a nice metal tone.
Have you engaged "DRIVE BOOST" on the preamp? (hit ENTER on the preamp DRIVE).
Gets plenty of gain on the USA LEAD2 (or 1), or DASMETAL, METAL and some of the others too.
Also, you may want to get extra depth and presence by hitting the "DEEP" and "BRIGHT" options.

I'm quite new to the Axe-Fx, but two amps in this way is what I'm experimenting with, liking it so far.
Click to expand...

thanks, i'll try it
 
also remember to look at the front input level... when i started messing with my ultra, i had it about 9 oclock, and found i needed to boost almost every amp with the boost function, i have since moved the input up to 11:30 and the need for the boost has diminished. I had to re-tweak some presets, but now it sounds much better. dont forget playing with the input level. i know it's been said before but needs repeating.. there is a difference in sound between the front input and back input. I prefer the front input., so play with it.
 
dpeterson said:
also remember to look at the front input level... when i started messing with my ultra, i had it about 9 oclock, and found i needed to boost almost every amp with the boost function, i have since moved the input up to 11:30 and the need for the boost has diminished. I had to re-tweak some presets, but now it sounds much better. dont forget playing with the input level. i know it's been said before but needs repeating.. there is a difference in sound between the front input and back input. I prefer the front input., so play with it.
Click to expand...
FYI, common practice is for the input knob to be at about 2 o'clock. You're still kinda low, unless you have super hot pickups.
 
I like to play around with a parametric eq too. It seems I can get pretty close to that Dime "Mouth for War" etc. and with a little different tweakage go to "CFH" and "Cemetary Gates." My main guitar is a USA Dean DFH 94/150 to Ultra to stereo QSC's and I think the guitar is essential to some of the hardcore stuff. I have an 84 LP custom with EMG's and a Kahler trem, and it doesn't touch the Dean on a metal tone IMO. When it gets going it's a thing of beauty. Like Scarr my input is also around 2:00.
 
scarr said:
FYI, common practice is for the input knob to be at about 2 o'clock. You're still kinda low, unless you have super hot pickups.
Click to expand...

In my andersons they are the H2+'s so they arent super hot, so far i've just found that lower input tightens up some of the low end flub. I'll play with putting it up to 2 and see what that does.. i think people just need to experiment and see what sounds good to them.. way too many variables.. pickups, body wood, neck wood, technique, etc..

dave
 
dpeterson said:
In my andersons they are the H2+'s so they arent super hot, so far i've just found that lower input tightens up some of the low end flub. I'll play with putting it up to 2 and see what that does.. i think people just need to experiment and see what sounds good to them..
Click to expand...
In the case of the input level control, it is better to follow the instructions in the manual. The control is there specifically to optimize headroom vs. signal/noise for pickups of differing outputs.

Any change in sound that you presently get by altering the position of the input level knob can be achieved identically via other means (e.g., simply turning down the drive level in the amp block), and your signal/noise ratio will be best with the input level control adjusted per the manual.

Without exception, "tightening the bottom" really means "reducing overdrive due to bass frequencies." The way to accomplish this is to reduce the level of low frequency at the input of the amp block (via a filter block and/or adjusting the "Lo Cut" frequency) and then restoring the lows after the amp. This can be as simple as using the correct cab sim. For example, if a cab sim sounds too "dark" with your normal tone settings, it may be exactly what you need to fatten up your sound after you've cleaned up the lows by taking some of them out prior to the amp block.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
Any change in sound that you presently get by altering the position of the input level knob can be achieved identically via other means (e.g., simply turning down the drive level in the amp block), and your signal/noise ratio will be best with the input level control adjusted per the manual.
Click to expand...
Jay, you know better! Turning down the DRIVE on the Amp is somewhat different as it alters the Amp's response. Putting a Volume or Filter block in front of the Amp will do the same as turning down the input knob without losing bits and your signal-to-noise ratio.

Without exception, "tightening the bottom" really means "reducing overdrive due to bass frequencies." The way to accomplish this is to reduce the level of low frequency at the input of the amp block (via a filter block and/or adjusting the "Lo Cut" frequency) and then restoring the lows after the amp. This can be as simple as using the correct cab sim. For example, if a cab sim sounds too "dark" with your normal tone settings, it may be exactly what you need to fatten up your sound after you've cleaned up the lows by taking some of them out prior to the amp block.
Click to expand...
I was posting something an awful lot like this somewhere else recently. (found it) This is a big key.

And I'll relink this as well:
"Some tips for modern high gain metal tones": http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewtopic.php?t=3482
 
scarr said:
Turning down the DRIVE on the Amp is somewhat different as it alters the Amp's response.
Click to expand...
Yep, I wasn't thinking when I typed that, although turning down the drive in models with a virtual "bright capacitor" might be just the ticket for "tightening bass." However, there are still multiple other ways to achieve the same result, as you point out.

I was posting something an awful lot like this somewhere else recently. (found it) This is a big key.
Click to expand...
I had seen that. EQ blocks are one type of option. I added the suggestion about cab sims, which are a very powerful means to accomplish certain tone shaping functions.
 
etzel said:
i covered basically almost all my gainy sounds with my standard, but hardly can work out a aggresive metal tone. i know people were talking about difficulties but i would like to ask if there is something specific in getting there?

i listened to clawfinger's demos with different amps and there has to be something that made even the smothest amp a "animal". what do you use: is EQ the answer? do u use parrallel runnings of 2 amps? nether this way i could come up with something killer(even if i use it for only one song). it is tough, but not enought tight...

can you give me some tricks and tips?

PS i use my axe with the power amp of my amp and 2X12 cabinet
Click to expand...

Oups, I didn't see this thread until now. Sorry bout that. Well here's how I do it:

Input 1 should occasionally blink red. Set the gate pretty high (threshold -40, 1.30, 80 ms release).

Use the TS808 in the drive block (Drive 0, tone max, volume max) into an amp (New Recto, Solo 100, Das Metal, Fas modern). Drive (with the boost on) around 12 o'clock (easier going clockwise with the amp), bass at noon, mid at 9 o'clock, treble at 2.30 something (bright on). Presence around 2, deep switch on (maybe off, depending on your IRL amp and cab), deep at noon, damp at three, sag at nine, master at noon.

Try that and adjust the EQ. Don't get too close to the cab though, cause it'll scream like a pig ;)
 
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