AccuGroove Latte vs Xitone MBritt?

So the good news is @MicFarlow is an amazing person to deal with. The seller was also excellent. I'm going to hold on to the MBritt and wait for a new amp to become available for it. The bad news is Xitone is suffering from success right now and the amps are way backordered. It'll be a while before I'll be able to turn this amazing looking speaker on and tell you what I think of it. Oh well. Patience and virtues, right?
 
Is the accugroove advantage due to its three way setup as opposed to the coax setup of the xitones or matrix fr range?

I'm thinking about a celestion tf1225 setup but the accugroove have been really intriguing to me
 
Is the accugroove advantage due to its three way setup as opposed to the coax setup of the xitones or matrix fr range?

I'm thinking about a celestion tf1225 setup but the accugroove have been really intriguing to me

Yeah the three way design is a big part. I believe it is also tri amped. Another big thing is the cabinet design. Even though my Demitasse is small in size it is about 18” deep.

Again it sounds huge. I would love to hear a Latte.
 
So I'm that budget diy guy that mods a $60 squier and looks to figure how to build his own frfr cab.

I imagine if I were to find the right drivers and make a cab to match the demitasse I could build one right?
 
So I'm that budget diy guy that mods a $60 squier and looks to figure how to build his own frfr cab.

I imagine if I were to find the right drivers and make a cab to match the demitasse I could build one right?

Sure go for it. Keep in mind you will need the right amp and know how to tune with DSP.
 
I saw this speakerbyildersupply blog where someone built a 3way system with 3 way crossover into a 4x12 cab.

I'm just wondering if it will be similar to the accugrooves I guess.

If I'm doing it passive with a like say a behringer power amp how would you tune dsp? New to that part of it
 
Behringer amp is going to sound awful. Don’t bother if you are going that route.

I’ve tried almost many of the power amps the market the Fryette Powerstation is the best of the best. Get a used version 1 and it won’t be much more than the Behringer. The Powerstation has serious spank and is lightweight. With it you won’t need to go three way and you can skip DSP which is elusive.
 
Behringer amp is going to sound awful. Don’t bother if you are going that route.

I’ve tried almost many of the power amps the market the Fryette Powerstation is the best of the best. Get a used version 1 and it won’t be much more than the Behringer. The Powerstation has serious spank and is lightweight. With it you won’t need to go three way and you can skip DSP which is elusive.
Ok so why do i get to skip three way and dsp with the fryette
 
Wanted to update this thread: my M. Britt is right as rain again and it sounds SUPERB. HUGE! OPEN! That removable panel was a genius move on Mick's part. The Dayton amp can keep up plenty well and the Celestion in it sounds very good. There nice spank on the spanky patches -- lots of fast response from it.
 
Accugroove designs just don't make sense to me... dual tweeter, why? And some designs have dual tweeters horizontally aligned -- tweeter alignment is at random. They don't seem to care for how it affects directivity, or just basic phase issues -- look at MiniGroove, wtf?

Accugroove also got in a ton of trouble years back in the bass forums for their "accuswitch." They put a switch that claimed to switch between 4 & 8 ohms, but it turned out to just engage/bypass a capacitor in series with one of the drivers... which would indicate they didn't know the difference between DC resistance and AC impedance... what business did they have in speaker design then?

Maybe they've' learned since then, but looking at their product lineup and their tweeters, I don't think so...
 
Accugroove designs just don't make sense to me... dual tweeter, why? And some designs have dual tweeters horizontally aligned -- tweeter alignment is at random. They don't seem to care for how it affects directivity, or just basic phase issues -- look at MiniGroove, wtf?

Accugroove also got in a ton of trouble years back in the bass forums for their "accuswitch." They put a switch that claimed to switch between 4 & 8 ohms, but it turned out to just engage/bypass a capacitor in series with one of the drivers... which would indicate they didn't know the difference between DC resistance and AC impedance... what business did they have in speaker design then?

Maybe they've' learned since then, but looking at their product lineup and their tweeters, I don't think so...
I can say a couple things from first hand experience: they sound great and they are super light.

That is the Lattes. No experience with others.
 
Like @unix-guy, I've experienced their Latte design first hand and can also attest to how awesome they sound and how light they are. Price was really their only downside when I was shopping FRFR recently, otherwise I would have pressed on my order. We were monitoring the speakers from about 10' away and I liked the Lattes the best of the bunch we were comparing, and there were a few coaxial designs in the bunch we played through.

So, sense to you or not, they're clearly doing something right @yeky83.
 
Like @unix-guy, I've experienced their Latte design first hand and can also attest to how awesome they sound and how light they are. Price was really their only downside when I was shopping FRFR recently, otherwise I would have pressed on my order. We were monitoring the speakers from about 10' away and I liked the Lattes the best of the bunch we were comparing, and there were a few coaxial designs in the bunch we played through.

So, sense to you or not, they're clearly doing something right @yeky83.

It's not that it doesn't make sense to me. Their design choice of dual tweeters doesn't make sense period for an FRFR. I don't have first hand experience, so I can't speak to how they sound. But I can speak to why their design doesn't make sense, cus basic laws of physics and all that.

Vertical dual tweeters will cause comb filtering unless your ears remain on Latte's horizontal axis. Most likely, your ears won't be since it's a backline design, you'll be listening well above its horizontal axis, hello comb filtering.
There will be lobing over the crossover frequency. Latte's horizontal tweeter-midwoofer arrangement means you will have to stay on its vertical axis to avoid the lobing. Move left or right, and you will get huge dB dips over the crossover frequency range. (Bonus! Latte's dual tweeter means you'll have an abnormally shaped lobing at the crossover frequency, not a controlled one.)

All non-coaxial speakers have the lobing problem, so OK. But they don't have dual tweeters. Latte takes it to a stupid level since lobing + dual-tweeters = accuracy limited to on-axis only. So move either vertically or horizontally, you'll get inaccurate results. That's definitively not a good FRFR, since it can't be accurate over a meaningful range of use.

Look at every professional 3-way design, one tweeter is used. Tweeters are more efficient than woofers, you absolutely don't need two, it just introduces more compromises. This suggests that they have very little knowledge in speaker design, and apparently they haven't tried to learn and change their design in the 15 years they've been in business, or since their Accuswitch embarrassment 10 years ago. I wouldn't trust them with other aspects like crossover design, time & phase alignment, etc.

I'm sorry for getting down on them so much. I get that you guys have had good experiences, but sounding great =/= FRFR or accurate. It's really basic stuff, their design really doesn't make any practical sense.
 
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It's not that it doesn't make sense to me. Their design choice of dual tweeters doesn't make sense period for an FRFR. I don't have first hand experience, so I can't speak to how they sound. But I can speak to why their design doesn't make sense, cus basic laws of physics and all that.

Vertical dual tweeters will cause comb filtering unless your ears remain on Latte's horizontal axis. Most likely, your ears won't be since it's a backline design, you'll be listening well above its horizontal axis, hello comb filtering.
There will be lobing over the crossover frequency. Latte's horizontal tweeter-midwoofer arrangement means you will have to stay on its vertical axis to avoid the lobing. Move left or right, and you will get huge dB dips over the crossover frequency range. (Bonus! Latte's dual tweeter means you'll have an abnormally shaped lobing at the crossover frequency, not a controlled one.)

All non-coaxial speakers have the lobing problem, so OK. But they don't have dual tweeters. Latte takes it to a stupid level since lobing + dual-tweeters = accuracy limited to on-axis only. So move either vertically or horizontally, you'll get inaccurate results. That's definitively not a good FRFR, since it can't be accurate over a meaningful range of use.

Look at every professional 3-way design, one tweeter is used. Tweeters are more efficient than woofers, you absolutely don't need two, it just introduces more compromises. This suggests that they have very little knowledge in speaker design, and apparently they haven't tried to learn and change their design in the 15 years they've been in business, or since their Accuswitch embarrassment 10 years ago. I wouldn't trust them with other aspects like crossover design, time & phase alignment, etc.

I'm sorry for getting down on them so much. I get that you guys have had good experiences, but sounding great =/= FRFR or accurate. It's really basic stuff, their design really doesn't make any practical sense.

Very interesting insights and all have merit! It would be interesting to hear AccuGroove's explanation for the design.
 
It's not that it doesn't make sense to me. Their design choice of dual tweeters doesn't make sense period for an FRFR. I don't have first hand experience, so I can't speak to how they sound. But I can speak to why their design doesn't make sense, cus basic laws of physics and all that.

Vertical dual tweeters will cause comb filtering unless your ears remain on Latte's horizontal axis. Most likely, your ears won't be since it's a backline design, you'll be listening well above its horizontal axis, hello comb filtering.
There will be lobing over the crossover frequency. Latte's horizontal tweeter-midwoofer arrangement means you will have to stay on its vertical axis to avoid the lobing. Move left or right, and you will get huge dB dips over the crossover frequency range. (Bonus! Latte's dual tweeter means you'll have an abnormally shaped lobing at the crossover frequency, not a controlled one.)

All non-coaxial speakers have the lobing problem, so OK. But they don't have dual tweeters. Latte takes it to a stupid level since lobing + dual-tweeters = accuracy limited to on-axis only. So move either vertically or horizontally, you'll get inaccurate results. That's definitively not a good FRFR, since it can't be accurate over a meaningful range of use.

Look at every professional 3-way design, one tweeter is used. Tweeters are more efficient than woofers, you absolutely don't need two, it just introduces more compromises. This suggests that they have very little knowledge in speaker design, and apparently they haven't tried to learn and change their design in the 15 years they've been in business, or since their Accuswitch embarrassment 10 years ago. I wouldn't trust them with other aspects like crossover design, time & phase alignment, etc.

I'm sorry for getting down on them so much. I get that you guys have had good experiences, but sounding great =/= FRFR or accurate. It's really basic stuff, their design really doesn't make any practical sense.
I can't tell you anything about the science... But a group of us including @iarsee did side by side comparisons listening from various locations within a very high end studio live room and they sounded great from any position except far to the sides or from behind (the same "issue" all would have).

Since they belong to my bassist, I also did additional comparisons at my house with my Xitones and they did not display any adverse issues.
 
Mmmmmkay.

You can dismiss it if you want, but I'm not sure how that benefits you.

Again, Accugroove is a company that sold a series capacitor as an impedance switcher. If you understand anything about electronics, that's either utter BS or extreme incompetence. They don't have a good track record at all for good design.

I'm not suggesting you dislike what you heard, you like what you like. Hey, I might like how it sounds if I heard it. But is it an accurate FRFR over a meaningfully usable range, no it's not.

Very interesting insights and all have merit! It would be interesting to hear AccuGroove's explanation for the design.

Me too... although I don't know how what I've pointed out can be discounted. It's not arguable, it's just facts.

The distance between two sound sources should be less than 1/4 wavelength of the sound it's producing in order for them to combine as a single sound source.
Let's say the Latte dual tweeters produce 4k ~ 20k Hz. Wavelength of 4 kHz is 3.4 inches, 1/4 of 3.4 is 0.85 inches. Are the center points of Latte dual tweeters 0.85 inches apart? No, looks more like 3 inches apart.
Since the two tweeters don't join up as a single sound source, their phase will not be in alignment in off axis, throughout the entirety of its frequency range, causing comb filtering.

Let's consider why they might've chosen dual tweeters.
1. Lack of tweeter volume? Probably not, cus tweeters are more efficient than woofers, but if so, just use more efficient tweeters.
2. Directivity? Put a waveguide on it instead of introducing comb filtering. Or at least put the tweeters closer together.

So what is up with this befuddling design? Well, let's look at the accuswitch... That's their track record.

3. Cus it looks cool, and more tweeters more better? Probably.


I can't tell you anything about the science... But a group of us including @iarsee did side by side comparisons listening from various locations within a very high end studio live room and they sounded great from any position except far to the sides or from behind (the same "issue" all would have).

Since they belong to my bassist, I also did additional comparisons at my house with my Xitones and they did not display any adverse issues.

I believe you! I would probably like their sound too. I'm not a speaker designer, I don't have the ear training to know how to listen for these inaccuracies. But I can inform myself as a consumer what's a good design and what's not. With all due respect, "sounds great to me" isn't the point of an FRFR, accuracy is.

Speaking of bassists, there's some legit informed speaker designers on bass forums like basstalk. Some of them have spoken out against the bad designs of Accugrooves. Just ask yourself, where else have you seen dual tweeters? On any other pro equipment where accuracy matters? Any studio monitor? PA? Anywhere other than consumer space where "it looks cool" and marketability reigns? There's a reason it's not done.
 
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Sigh...

Again, Accugroove is a company that sold a series capacitor as an impedance switcher. If you understand anything about electronics, that's either utter BS or extreme incompetence. They don't have a good track record at all for good design.
So I do understand a few things about electronics and I agree that's egregious and awful but...companies make, and recover, from stupid mistakes all the time. This capacitor-in-series debacle was, according to the internet's elephantine memory, about 7 years ago. Seems weird to portray them as awful engineers forever more. Show me an engineer's career that isn't littered with mistakes? It is an excellent way to learn. Usually it's done before the product hits the market, sometimes it is not.

Let's say the Latte dual tweeters produce 4k ~ 20k Hz. Wavelength of 4 kHz is 3.4 inches, 1/4 of 3.4 is 0.85 inches. Are the center points of Latte dual tweeters 0.85 inches apart? No, looks more like 3 inches apart.
This falls apart if the tweeters aren't receiving the same frequency content -- there could be a crossover between them. Not saying there is, but you should allow for the possibility in your critiques. According to this article they do use 3- and 4-way crossover designs so it's definitely a possibility that each tweeter is getting a significantly different amount of signal content to broadcast. The article says: AccuGroove’s unique cabinets utilize the D-CELL504 DSP’s Armonía software to create crossovers that divide the input signal three to four ways, sending each frequency range to an individual speaker within the cabinet.

One thing I will say is it does seem a little suspicious that there's no frequency response plot available for any of their cabinets. That's sort of the "trust us, they're more or less flat and full range" proof that companies put up with their FRFR offerings to convince you they are.

We should also acknowledge that FRFR is a heavily overloaded term. Let's call it an "aspirational label" for speakers, especially at this price range. In a room full of claimed FRFR speakers they all sounded remarkably different which, if they're really doing their jobs right, shouldn't be the case.
 
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