About the FAS models

axifist

axifist

Experienced
This is especially for the FAS 6160, but it might be valid for the other FAS models too.

According to the Wiki the FAS 6160 is a "Custom Fractal model, a modified version of the PVH 6160 Block (original EVH 5150) - less fizzy than the original, with a bouncier feel." So as far as I understand those two are supposed to sound quite similar, right? But comparing the PVH 6160 Block with the FAS 6160 with default settings they sound totally different! The FAS model is much brighter etc.

I didn't dig deeper, e.g. what needs to be adjusted to equalize the sounds, but a thought came to mind that this (and possibly the others too) FAS model needs a bit of adjustment due to the internal changes of the last few firmware releases.
 
One way to dig deeper would have been to install earlier firmware versions to see if the differences between the two models has always been like that. It's a bigger undertaking, so I posted this bug report before doing that in order to get clear wether or not this might be a hint to a possible bug in the FAS model (I guess the PVH 6160 Block model is correct, because it sounds awesome ;) ). Since I of course don't know how you create your FAS models or in particular the 6160 model it's hard to say.

So can I assume that according to your answer there's nothing there? It's just that I now use the PVH 6160 Block as my main higain amp and considered using the FAS model instead to finetune my tone. But it just sounds too different for that.

And just to be clear, this report is not meant as an insult or anything ... Your answer gives me the impression you took it that way. I HAVE found real bugs in the past, so I'll continue filing them in case I have a suspicion. I actually have kind of a talent to find strange bugs without even actively looking for them ;)
 
I haven't tried the FAS 6160 and I have only briefly used the 5150 models in the past so I can't really speak directly about them but I would expect the two to be quite different, rather than just a 5150 model with a few minor tweaks. Granted the description is broad and short, but I bet with some tweaking you could probably get it sounding like the 5150 model.

I remember when the FAS Modern III came out, it was described as similar to a recto only tighter bottom end (I think? Just going off memory). I tried it briefly and I didn't really hear it, so I went back to my usual recto patch.

More recently I went back to the FAS Modern III to give it another shot, spent a few minutes tweaking it, and approaching the eq with fresh ears but not eqing it like I would I recto. The end result is some eq settings that look totally different from what I would run on a recto, but true to the model description, it's a lot clearer and tighter, yet still retains that huge bottom end. My new favourite amp for sure.

I suspect you would get similar results from the FAS 6160 but you'll need to set it up differently than you're used to.
 
mnemonic said:
I suspect you would get similar results from the FAS 6160 but you'll need to set it up differently than you're used to.
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This!

Having a look at the two models side by side the advanced parameters have very different values so, model differences aside, you'd expect them to sound different. If you want to fine tune a tone you already enjoy, you may have more luck exploring the advanced amp parameters on your patch rather than changing the model.
 
You guys are probably right. I already started tweaking the FAS 6160, but before going into details I'll have to check my current tone with something else than my headphones. Maybe I already got what I want ;)

What I learned from this thread is not so expect the FAS models to sound similar to the amps they were initially supposed to be similar to. If this is intended I'm ok with it.
 
axifist said:
What I learned from this thread is not so expect the FAS models to sound similar to the amps they were initially supposed to be similar to. If this is intended I'm ok with it.
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I believe that's the idea; it's similar to all the different modified Marshall style amps (Friedman, Cameron, Splawn etc) versus the Plexi/800/Jubilee/JVM models. Which reminds me, I've been meaning to check out the FAS HotRod...
 
funnily enough, i was just going through the FAS models today. love the Crunch model, but holy crap...the FAS Hot Rod...just bumped the Friedman out of my gigging patches. similar in many ways, but it has a softer feel and nice little bump in the midrange. it roars through V30's!
 
simeon said:
funnily enough, i was just going through the FAS models today. love the Crunch model, but holy crap...the FAS Hot Rod...just bumped the Friedman out of my gigging patches. similar in many ways, but it has a softer feel and nice little bump in the midrange. it roars through V30's!
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This is getting me pumped up to try them now; are you using similar settings on the FAS HR and Friedman?
 
no, for the FAS HR, i just dropped the bass down to 2.5 and nudged up the treble. everything else on default, except motor drive, which i turned up to 4 and i set the time to 50ms. using it through V30's like the friedman, though.
 
I've recently discovered one of the Fractal cabs amongst the factory cabs, and it sounds great with an overdriven Marshall amp. Only downside is that it seems to eat up 7 to 8% more CPU then the cab I previously used.
 
simeon said:
funnily enough, i was just going through the FAS models today. love the Crunch model, but holy crap...the FAS Hot Rod...just bumped the Friedman out of my gigging patches. similar in many ways, but it has a softer feel and nice little bump in the midrange. it roars through V30's!
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Yes, the Hot Rod rules. I turn down Drive to 3 or so. Everything else at default. With the new #148 cab.
 
Yeah.. FAS HotRod kills! much better than friedmans
80% of my patches is HR sim.
I said it be4: if hotrod release as a "real amp" i would buy it!

It's like FAS Modern slays all rectos as well..
(Only sim outside FAS* I use is USA IIc++/5153 red)
 
Seems like there would be little point in Cliff making a custom FAS model and having it sound exactly like an existing amp......
 
I decided to expend whatever effort was required to obtain the absolute best pushed clean (semi-clean) Fender tone out of the II. I auditioned ALL two-hundred fifty and some-odd amp models in the unit (even the high gain models), briefly tweaking each to see if it was even a contender. After four days I narrowed the choices to a short list of ten. I then fine-tuned each of these ten to the best of my abilities, and narrowed the list to five.

These five models were all very close to what I considered the ultimate pushed clean/dirty Fender tone. All were Fender models, except one. After more intense listening/playing sessions and microscopic scrutiny, this one non-Fender model finally rose to the number one spot.

This model was the FAS Class-A. While all the top contenders sounded amazing, the FAS Class-A had a transparency to it. The highs were clear and distinct but not harsh or ice pick like in any way. The note separation in a chord was slightly better than the other models. The amp model "squished", "bounced", and compressed just the right amount. The eq was perfect, from lowest bass to highest treble.

I was amazed, as I almost passed over all FAS models in my original tests, since they were not real-world amps. I'm glad I chose to give them a spin. The FAS Class-A is the best SRV-type tone I have ever played through. It also sounds great with a bit of ODS-100 or another Fender model blended in parallel. Kudos for this accidental amp.
 
The Axe could just contain a handful of FAS models and still be a world class tone machine...

All you really need is a handful of amp styles, and to do those respective styles very well. Its certainly great we've got like 50 different Fendish models, 50 Marshall style models etc, but often times they are very very close, at least to where I can't tell one model for another in a blind test.
 
I have presets based on these FAS amps:

123 FAS Lead I (my main lead amp/preset)
126 FAS Modern III (a higher gain crunchy preset)
128 FAS Rhythm (a medium gain, 70's crunch preset...this is a great "Marshall" for medium gain rock tones)
 
steadystate said:
This model was the FAS Class-A.
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Cool...I'm planning to experiment with that amp on my next tweak session for my clean and bluesy main presets.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the next FAS modelling device was comprised of all FAS custom amps, where the best/ideal traits of a variety of amps/styles/types are distilled into a couple of dozen custom amps. I think that is the next logical step in the evolution of tone generation/amps.

As has been mentioned many times, you can create amps in the virtual world that cannot exist in the real world, allowing tone/distortion shaping with ideal voicing/driving of the gain stages, etc., and taking the best ideas of currents amps and extending them in new and creative ways.
 
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