Wish Ability to route MIDI to/from USB

trixdropd said:
On my axe fx 2 I can plug a midi controller into it and the midi in is echoed to the usb midi out. Very nice.

Axe fx 3, notta.

So like poster above, I am turning on my axefx 2 and plugging in the mfc and then going usb into pc, using midi ox to take axe 2 midi in and send to axe 3.

Now as I do my thing with the foot controller I can RECORD THE MIDI in my daw and automate my midi.

Is this doable Cliff? (Usb midi through from din in and midi through from usb to din out?
Click to expand...

Just for reference, MIDI Thru via USB only works properly on the Axe-Fx II XL+ in Windows. I've had no end of trouble with it on MacOS. So (as a different poster mentioned) saying that the driver works out of the box is only a half truth. The manual also seems to confirm this somewhere near the end -- but that doesn't explain why it works on WINDOWS...

In my case to record or route MIDI THRU from a MIDI foot controller (plugged into the MIDI IN on the back of the Axe II) via the Axe II I've had to use an additional MIDI interface on the MIDI OUT DIN port and then run it into the computer as a separate USB MIDI device. The MIDI that comes through the Axe-Fx II's USB is garbled. Sounds like it's not present at all in the III.

I'm absolutely sure you can do the same workaround on the III and the USB adaptor was only like 50 bucks and easy to set up, but as it was a known issue on the II you'd have expected this would have been cured in the flagship III! I'm shocked that it wasn't. I was even basically told by support that it wouldn't be an issue in the III (since it's class compliant) and I might want to consider buying one...ughhh!
 
vaultnaemsae said:
I was even basically told by support that it wouldn't be an issue in the III (since it's class compliant) and I might want to consider buying one...ughhh!
Click to expand...

that doesn’t sound like something fractal support would say - the II was also class compliant - but as they’re all on this forum i’m sure they’ll chime in
 
vaultnaemsae said:
Just for reference, MIDI Thru via USB only works properly on the Axe-Fx II XL+ in Windows. I've had no end of trouble with it on MacOS. So (as a different poster mentioned) saying that the driver works out of the box is only a half truth. The manual also seems to confirm this somewhere near the end -- but that doesn't explain why it works on WINDOWS...

In my case to record or route MIDI THRU from a MIDI foot controller (plugged into the MIDI IN on the back of the Axe II) via the Axe II I've had to use an additional MIDI interface on the MIDI OUT DIN port and then run it into the computer as a separate USB MIDI device. The MIDI that comes through the Axe-Fx II's USB is garbled. Sounds like it's not present at all in the III.

I'm absolutely sure you can do the same workaround on the III and the USB adaptor was only like 50 bucks and easy to set up, but as it was a known issue on the II you'd have expected this would have been cured in the flagship III! I'm shocked that it wasn't. I was even basically told by support that it wouldn't be an issue in the III (since it's class compliant) and I might want to consider buying one...ughhh!
Click to expand...
I'm surprised it works at all as the Midi thru is supposedly just hardwired from the Midi in.
 
flying_walrus said:
that doesn’t sound like something fractal support would say - the II was also class compliant - but as they’re all on this forum i’m sure they’ll chime in
Click to expand...
In what way? I cannot connect an iOS device directly to the USB on an Axe Fx II... I can on an Axe Fx III.
 
Well, it may not sound like it but I can dig up my old support ticket if it’s still available!

It’s very ambiguous. Generally, like Unix-guy said, ‘class compliant’ devices do not require additional driver installation.

Want more ambiguous? Read the WIKI!

“The Axe-Fx III supports a direct connection to iOS devices, using Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter. This means that you can use apps such as SetListMaker and BandHelper on an iPad without requiring an additional MIDI-to-USB interface (which the Axe-Fx II does require). The connection also supports USB Audio between the III and the iOS device.

To connect the Axe-Fx II through USB a driver (Windows) or firmware installer (Mac) must be downloaded to the device first from a computer. If it's not installed, utilities such as Axe-Edit, Fractal-Bot and Cab-Lab won't recognize the Axe-Fx II. Also, tablets such as an iPad do not connect to the Axe-Fx II, until the support system has been downloaded to the unit first (without power cycling).

Windows – The Axe-Fx II is an Audio Class 2.0 compliant device. A class-compliant device requires no drivers. The drivers are provided by the OS manufacturer. Audio Class 2.0 also encompasses MIDI-over-USB. Microsoft does not support Audio Class 2.0. Therefore FAS provides a driver for Windows systems. The driver for Windows contains both the firmware installer and the audio drivers.

Apple – Apple does support Audio Class 2.0, but poorly. To overcome this, you can increase the buffer size in the Axe-Fx II's I/O > Audio menu. The driver for Macs is NOT an audio driver. It is a firmware installer. The Axe-Fx II uses a "soft" USB controller. It gets its code from the host computer. When you turn the Axe-Fx II on it requests firmware from the host. This is superior to a hard-coded controller in that updates merely require a new host image rather than reflashing the controller.

"The driver that we supply for OS-X computers is NOT an audio driver. It is a firmware installer. The Axe-Fx II uses a "soft" USB controller. It gets its code from the host computer. When you turn the Axe-Fx II on it requests firmware from the host. This is superior to a hard-coded controller in that updates merely require a new host image rather than reflashing the controller."
_________________

So it’s fully class compliant (which means it doesn’t need drivers) but Windows doesn’t support Audio Class 2.0 compliant devices. So Fractal provides a driver. Reread that a few times.

Next, Apple support it - poorly? What’s that mean? You either support it or you don’t. The firmware controller talked about is for the USB controller - not the Axe-Fx...but how do you seperate the two? And it’s not an audio driver. But it’s called a driver...

I’d love for somebody to actually explain this cos it doesn’t make sense to me. I’d also love to test an Axe III to see how the MIDI does or doesn’t work.

At the end of the day, most musicians understand ‘class compliant’ to mean a device that does not require any additional driver installation in order to use your computer/tablet device over USB. Roland/Yamaha/iConnect have solved my MIDI routing issues by selling me USB interfaces. The audio thing is another issue. Maybe one day I’ll get my hands on an RME and be done with it.
 
vaultnaemsae said:
Well, it may not sound like it but I can dig up my old support ticket if it’s still available!

It’s very ambiguous. Generally, like Unix-guy said, ‘class compliant’ devices do not require additional driver installation.

Want more ambiguous? Read the WIKI!

“The Axe-Fx III supports a direct connection to iOS devices, using Apple's Lightning-to-USB Camera Adapter. This means that you can use apps such as SetListMaker and BandHelper on an iPad without requiring an additional MIDI-to-USB interface (which the Axe-Fx II does require). The connection also supports USB Audio between the III and the iOS device.

To connect the Axe-Fx II through USB a driver (Windows) or firmware installer (Mac) must be downloaded to the device first from a computer. If it's not installed, utilities such as Axe-Edit, Fractal-Bot and Cab-Lab won't recognize the Axe-Fx II. Also, tablets such as an iPad do not connect to the Axe-Fx II, until the support system has been downloaded to the unit first (without power cycling).

Windows – The Axe-Fx II is an Audio Class 2.0 compliant device. A class-compliant device requires no drivers. The drivers are provided by the OS manufacturer. Audio Class 2.0 also encompasses MIDI-over-USB. Microsoft does not support Audio Class 2.0. Therefore FAS provides a driver for Windows systems. The driver for Windows contains both the firmware installer and the audio drivers.

Apple – Apple does support Audio Class 2.0, but poorly. To overcome this, you can increase the buffer size in the Axe-Fx II's I/O > Audio menu. The driver for Macs is NOT an audio driver. It is a firmware installer. The Axe-Fx II uses a "soft" USB controller. It gets its code from the host computer. When you turn the Axe-Fx II on it requests firmware from the host. This is superior to a hard-coded controller in that updates merely require a new host image rather than reflashing the controller.

"The driver that we supply for OS-X computers is NOT an audio driver. It is a firmware installer. The Axe-Fx II uses a "soft" USB controller. It gets its code from the host computer. When you turn the Axe-Fx II on it requests firmware from the host. This is superior to a hard-coded controller in that updates merely require a new host image rather than reflashing the controller."
_________________

So it’s fully class compliant (which means it doesn’t need drivers) but Windows doesn’t support Audio Class 2.0 compliant devices. So Fractal provides a driver. Reread that a few times.

Next, Apple support it - poorly? What’s that mean? You either support it or you don’t. The firmware controller talked about is for the USB controller - not the Axe-Fx...but how do you seperate the two? And it’s not an audio driver. But it’s called a driver...

I’d love for somebody to actually explain this cos it doesn’t make sense to me. I’d also love to test an Axe III to see how the MIDI does or doesn’t work.

At the end of the day, most musicians understand ‘class compliant’ to mean a device that does not require any additional driver installation in order to use your computer/tablet device over USB. Roland/Yamaha/iConnect have solved my MIDI routing issues by selling me USB interfaces. The audio thing is another issue. Maybe one day I’ll get my hands on an RME and be done with it.
Click to expand...
It makes sense to me. Fractal is ahead of the game compared to the OS vendors listed.

It doesn't really help us... But the fault seems to be with MS and Apple not Fractal.

By the way, you don't need a camera connection kit, either. I use a single USB B to lightning cable and it works great with the Axe Fx III.
 
Ahead of their game? Well, Yes, they make the leading hardware modelling device in that field. No arguments. I didn’t sell up just cos of the connectivity issues.

But, if these devices don’t play nice with consumer computing devices (and the operating systems they employ) it really makes things difficult for the users. Musicians use Fractal gear. More and more musicians use MIDI and record audio. If other manufacturers can make devices that handle audio and midi on various platforms without drivers I’m not sure why the big brains at Fractal have/can not.

FWIW I still can’t understand that info. It appears to be contradictory.
 
Actually, Windows does support USB Audio 2.0 now, and has done so for a few years. But of course that implies using WaveRT/WASAPI instead of ASIO for low latency applications, and I haven’t tested III in this mode for lack of need.

I’m surprised to read that MIDI Thru is supported on Windows and Axe-FX II. IME, it isn’t, Thru only works on the DIN port as that’s simply hardwired to the DIN In port.

What does work with II, and is sorely missing with III, is “USB Adapter mode” where Axe-FX works as an external MIDI interface.
 
vaultnaemsae said:
Well, it may not sound like it but I can dig up my old support ticket if it’s still available!

It’s very ambiguous. Generally, like Unix-guy said, ‘class compliant’ devices do not require additional driver installation.

Want more ambiguous? Read the WIKI!

(...)
Click to expand...

The wiki is poorly cited here. You've omitted the headers which distinguish the content applying to the III from the content that applies to the II...

Schermafbeelding 2019-04-02 om 08.21.29.png
 
vangrieg said:
Actually, Windows does support USB Audio 2.0 now, and has done so for a few years. But of course that implies using WaveRT/WASAPI instead of ASIO for low latency applications, and I haven’t tested III in this mode for lack of need.

I’m surprised to read that MIDI Thru is supported on Windows and Axe-FX II. IME, it isn’t, Thru only works on the DIN port as that’s simply hardwired to the DIN In port.

What does work with II, and is sorely missing with III, is “USB Adapter mode” where Axe-FX works as an external MIDI interface.
Click to expand...

Fair point. I was an ASIO user.

And re: MIDI Thru over USB - I’m not lying! Give it a shot. Unfortunately I no longer have a Windows computer (my WIN computer died last month) or I’d make a video to prove it.

yek said:
The wiki is poorly cited here. You've omitted the headers which distinguish the content applying to the III from the content that applies to the II...

View attachment 53792
Click to expand...

My apologies, I did a rough and ready cut and paste from the Wiki via the Safari browser on my iPhone. Thank you for citing it it better than I could in that moment. I’m certainly not being critical of the Wiki, there’s endless wonderful information in there! I was just saying that the information seems to be contradictory, perhaps due to my lack of understanding.
 
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vaultnaemsae said:
And re: MIDI Thru over USB - I’m not lying! Give it a shot. Unfortunately I no longer have a Windows computer (my WIN computer died last month) or I’d make a video to prove it.
Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn’t implying that you were lying of course. I’m just saying that the functionality you’re talking about isn’t technically MIDI Thru.
 
vangrieg said:
Oh, I wasn’t implying that you were lying of course. I’m just saying that the functionality you’re talking about isn’t technically MIDI Thru.
Click to expand...

OK! All good ;) I don’t know what we should call it then - if not MIDI thru - but MIDI from my floor controller attached to the MIDI IN port is (was) easily viewable in MIDI-Ox on WIN10 from MIDI over USB and usable in a DAW. If I try to do that on macOS I can see some garbled MIDI data in MIDI Monitor but it’s absolute nonsense and any DAWs I’ve tried (except Logic Pro X - but strangely not Mainstage!!!) don’t see MIDI let alone respond to it.
 
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