AB/Y Panning effect with 2 cabs?

blastbeatdown

Inspired
Greetings, this is my first post.
So I'm entering the world of Axe Fx, and so far it has mimicked everything I love about my analog rig.. EXCEPT, that I have typically driven two tube heads (5150 II and dual rec) and two cabs via an AB/Y switch. This has enabled me to blend two beastly tones, and also mute one or the other to create a L/R panning effect in my live show. Being the only guitarist in my band, it has added a lot of depth to our performance and it's pretty crucial. How can I recreate this effect with the Axe Fx?

I'm still learning my way around the unit.. I believe that assigning two amp sims to the L and R outputs should be simple enough, but what pedal should I buy to switch between them (if any)? I'm not much of an effects guy, so I don't need a huge pedalboard. I pretty much only use the AB/Y switch live, and occassionally will disengage my noise gate at times to create feedback. Any advice would be much appreciated and I'm excited to come aboard the digital train!

-Justin
 
Hey Justin

Welcome to the rabbit hole! I would say this would be pretty simple using scenes within one preset, using different x/y setting on amps. I use the MFC-101, but not sure if your looking to use something else. There is a thread on different controllers on the forums. Definitely checking out both the Cooper Carter videos saved me a lot of time. Good luck!
 
I'm looking at the Randall RF8. It's pretty bare bones but I think it will suffice perfectly for what I need. So I'm thinking I just need it to toggle between two hard-panned presets?
 
If you have the XL, you can use one of PEDAL jacks for AmpX/Y and one for the Gate on/off.

In this case you wouldn't need a MIDI board at all and instead buy two cheap analog footswitches. You can also use the second switch for incrementing presets if you want more than 2 amps available. Note that this only works for the XL. The II only offers one PEDAL jack.


If you don't mind about investing some extra dollars into a MIDI board, you can't go wrong with a Behringer FCB1010. Cheap, sturdy and all the basic functions are there. Also it comes with two built-in expression pedals.

If you haven't used pedalboards much in the past, I wouldn't recommend the MFC. Obviously, it was designed for the Axe and offers the best compatibility, but chances are you won't ever use most of it's features judging from your post.
 
Thanks for your input. I actually have an Ultra right now, but I plan on upgrading to a II very soon. That does sound like an attractive feature on the XL, but for now it seems that midi is my only way to go. I heard of the Behringer you mentioned but quickly wrote it off because I don't think I'd use the expression pedals. I'll look further into it though.
 
Thanks for your input. I actually have an Ultra right now, but I plan on upgrading to a II very soon. That does sound like an attractive feature on the XL, but for now it seems that midi is my only way to go. I heard of the Behringer you mentioned but quickly wrote it off because I don't think I'd use the expression pedals. I'll look further into it though.
Doesn't the Ultra come with two PEDAL jacks aswell? I think it was only the II that had just one jack.
Also, IIRC, the Ultra doesn't have the X/Y feature, so I don't think you can apply the approach I mentioned. Incrementing presets with the PEDAL jack should work, though, so that's a possible workaround.

If you're looking for something small, you should also maybe check out the Midi Mouse. Basicly a very barebones preset up/down switcher.
 
Ah hah. Ok sounds good. I guess my next step will be learning how to assign the presets to the pedal but I'll sort that out once I actually have it. The prospect of having a full stereo setup with blended tones and panning effects without carrying two heads around has me salivating! Hope it works out
 
To do an ABY all you need is scenes not xy an amp. Scene 1 5150, scene 2. Dual Rec, scene 3 5150 + Dual Rex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
All you have to do is make a preset with the 2 amps you want going into 2 cabs, set the bypass on each to mute, pan each amp hard left and hard right, then use scenes to select between 1, 2, or both. Be careful with a midi board as my experience with them is that without the mfc, using scenes is tricky sometimes and switching presets is not gap less. Thats the reasons I got the mfc to avoid all of that chaos. Good luck.
 
That sounds like solid advice, but your comment about gaps when switching between them really concerns me! Damn it! Worst case scenario I could still lug a head around along with the axe fx, but that would sort of defeat the purpose. I truly don't feel like spending $750 or whatever for an MFC just for AB/Y switching. My top of the line tonebone selector was only $280
 
Could you specify which midi boards you had that problem with, so I at least know what to avoid? I'm hoping the Randall RF8 will do the job.
 
That sounds like solid advice, but your comment about gaps when switching between them really concerns me! Damn it! Worst case scenario I could still lug a head around along with the axe fx, but that would sort of defeat the purpose. I truly don't feel like spending $750 or whatever for an MFC just for AB/Y switching. My top of the line tonebone selector was only $280
Keep cool, you don't need an MFC.

Any MIDI board that is able to send CC# with CC values can switch scenes. The Behringer FCB1010 is one of the few exceptions as it does not provide a way to send a CC value other than 0 (off) and 127 (on). It can not send, f.ex. a value of 126. The problem is that scenes are coded into specific CC values, so your Midi device must be able to send any values between 0 and 127 in order to switch scenes.

However, there's multiple solutions for this:
1) get a different Midi board that can send a CC value in addition to a CC#. Almost any board can do this. The FCB1010 can't by default, but...
2) you can get a chip (UNO) for the FCB that enables this functionality. Costs only a couple of extra dollars. If you look on ebay, chances are you will find a used FCB1010 with an UNO chip equipped already ... you can also check out the sales section on these forums. There's almost always an UNO equipped FCB to be found there
3) you can use the "Map to preset" and "Map to scene" feature of the Axe to "redirect" any Program-change commands from any midi device to also switch scenes.
4) you can simply not use the scenes feature and instead use the Amp X/Y functions. For what you are trying to do, this is perfectly enough.
5) you can also map the bypass state of your amp sims to an external modifier and then simply assign your pedalboard switch to this modifier.


As you can see, there are plenty of solutions and workarounds. Don't worry, you don't need an MFC. Especially not if you only want basic amp switching. All this can be done with any basic Midi board. You can always ask the community if you don't know how to solve a problem later.


EDIT: Checked out the Randall RX8 and it's very rigid in it's programming (it has 4 binary switches on it's backside that you can use to set it up).
Here's what you can do with it when combined with the Axe:

- You can assign all buttons to the first 8 presets of the Axe
- You can assign all buttons to any of the Axe block states (you need to map them to the correct CC numbers on the Axe though), including block on/off and block X/Y
- You can assign f.ex. the bottom row to change presets and the top row to change block states
- You can freely assign the buttons to trigger external control modifiers ... that you can basicly map to any block bypass state in a preset to "emulate" scenes

So yes, it has all the basic functions you need. It doesn't directly support scenes, though, but as I said, you can apply numerous workarounds for this. The easiest would be the "Map to scene" feature of the Axe II and XL. If you want an explanation how this works, just ask and I can give you some instructions.


Here's a possible way to use the Randall with the Axe:

- In default setting (all backside switches to ON), the Randall will Send PC# 0-7 with it's buttons.
- the Axe will by default interpret these commands as preset 0-7
- If you want, f.ex. to change the Axe to interpret these commands in a fashion that the upper row of buttons are scene 1-4 of preset 1 and the lower row of buttons are scene 1-4 of preset 0, then just do the following:
--> go to I/O menu, then go to MIDI
--> scroll down until "Map from preset"
--> set it to the button on Randall you want to use (the first button on the board is "0", the last is "7")
--> scroll down to "Map to preset" and set it to the preset in the Axe you want to map to the button (so, in our example, preset 0 for the lower row and preset 1 for the upper row)
--> scroll to "Map to scene" and set it to the scene you want to use for this button (so 1 for the first button of the lower row, 4 for the last button of the lower row)
--> If you're done setting up, set "Ignore redundant PC" option to "ON". This will make sure the Axe will not try to change presets if you hit two buttons that are mapped to the same preset (to prevent the Axe from "reloading" the preset, which results in an audio gap)
 
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I'm just now seeing the edit to your post. That sounds pretty heavy for a novice such as myself, and if I'm understanding correctly, wouldn't I still be in a pickle since I only have an Axe Ultra right now? Yikes.
 
Crap, sorry, forgot you had the ultra. You should be able to use a pan blk or mixer before the amps and use it to pan between both amps or have the pedal at 50% and have both amps at once
 
On the Ultra, you can more or less only do basic preset switching. No scenes, no X/Y. However, that isn't as bad as it sounds. The audio dropout is very short and won't really be all that noticable.
 
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