A question to people using their own monitor mixers

V

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
I see lots of people using X32 for making their own monitor mixes for IEMs here, and praising the ability for every musician to use their phones to adjust mixes.

My question is - why do you do it? It's not teasing or trolling, I'm seriously curious and think that maybe I'm missing something, and maybe I should do this as well?

Why not just tell the sound guy to send you what you need? And how do you adjust anything during a gig? I mean, aren't your hands busy enough?

I'm especially puzzled that this is being used for IEMs. I could see more value in adjusting floor wedges really, since the sound from portals will affect what you hear in this case much more than with sound-isolating headphones plugged in your ears.

So what is the practical use for it?
 
vangrieg said:
Why not just tell the sound guy to send you what you need?
Click to expand...
this typically doesn't happen successfully.

you'll ask for a little more, he'll turn it up too much, so then you say turn it down a bit, and he turns it down too much. then you keep trying to get it set, and the sound guy gives up. and that's for just ONE of the channels you need fixed in your mix. and when you go to a new venue with a new soundguy, you don't know his skill or if he cares at all. having your own monitor mixer means you have a consistent mix, save it per venue if needed, and you can adjust things exactly how you need it.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
this typically doesn't happen successfully.

you'll ask for a little more, he'll turn it up too much, so then you say turn it down a bit, and he turns it down too much. then you keep trying to get it set, and the sound guy gives up. and that's for just ONE of the channels you need fixed in your mix. and when you go to a new venue with a new soundguy, you don't know his skill or if he cares at all. having your own monitor mixer means you have a consistent mix, save it per venue if needed, and you can adjust things exactly how you need it.
Click to expand...

This ^^
When I have a good mix in rehearsalroom, with my own preferences, I just have to adjust it lightly during soundcheck for a gig.
Not depending on good monitormixers at all
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
you'll ask for a little more, he'll turn it up too much, so then you say turn it down a bit, and he turns it down too much.
Click to expand...

Hmm, strange, this hasn't been my problem. I mean, adjusting monitor mix during a gig is needed sometimes, when it's difficult to communicate to the sound guy properly, but then adjusting levels between songs is also trial and error, isn't it?
 
vangrieg said:
Hmm, strange, this hasn't been my problem. I mean, adjusting monitor mix during a gig is needed sometimes, when it's difficult to communicate to the sound guy properly, but then adjusting levels between songs is also trial and error, isn't it?
Click to expand...
keep in mind that you can get away with level imbalances when using speakers vs that you can't tolerate when using in-ear monitors.

if you can't hear the keyboard in your monitor speaker, you can catch some of the spill of the other monitors or the keyboardist's amp, etc.

with in-ears, if it's not in your mix, you can't hear it. and slight variations in levels make a big difference with in-ears as well. if you rely on a sound guy to balance all those as precisely as you really need them, they'll walk away from the board :)
 
We do it for a couple of reasons, mostly convenience and personal preference. We spend almost no time on a sound check to get monitors mixed properly as it is pretty consistent gig to gig using IEM and x32 rack. Usually one song to be sure it's all working properly and we are good. And during a 3 hour gig I find plenty of opportunities to make adjustments that I want, which makes my mix better for me and encourages me to perform better. Necessary? Not by any stretch. Desirable? I wouldn't go back.

A side benefit - places we play that have a house FOH and sound man love us, because we are easy for them to mix (i.e. - half the work is done)
 
Thanks for all your replies.

One more question about routing - do you connect all your instruments to your mixer on stage and then pass all your feeds to FOH or do you use FOH as a pass-through device? Specifically I'm asking about drums, which, unlike, say, AFX, aren't easy to pre-mix in a rehearsal space. We don't move our own drumkit with us, using whatever the clubs provide or renting. Different drumkits sound differently, and in different venues we use different sets and number of microphones as well (usually not our own). So while pre-mixing guitars, bass and vocals is quite straightforward (in fact, I do have a preset that we use during rehearsals), drums are a different story, aren't they? Not to mention that since drum mics need preamps, this is the most expensive part of mixing as well.
 
vangrieg said:
Thanks for all your replies.

One more question about routing - do you connect all your instruments to your mixer on stage and then pass all your feeds to FOH or do you use FOH as a pass-through device? Specifically I'm asking about drums, which, unlike, say, AFX, aren't easy to pre-mix in a rehearsal space. We don't move our own drumkit with us, using whatever the clubs provide or renting. Different drumkits sound differently, and in different venues we use different sets and number of microphones as well (usually not our own). So while pre-mixing guitars, bass and vocals is quite straightforward (in fact, I do have a preset that we use during rehearsals), drums are a different story, aren't they? Not to mention that since drum mics need preamps, this is the most expensive part of mixing as well.
Click to expand...

The first, FOH picks the signal from our x32 rack, including drums.
You're right that the drums is the most 'difficult' part. All the rest is already pretty balanced in rehearsal/soundcheck.
However my personal preference for drums is "only" kick and snare in my ears, so thats dialed in easy.
 
GibsonLesPaul said:
my personal preference for drums is "only" kick and snare in my ears, so thats dialed in easy.
Click to expand...

So, just to clarify, drum mics go to your mixer first, using its preamps, and then the signal splits and goes unmodified (?) to FOH, and then whatever submixes you need for monitors go to respective busses, is that correct?
 
First: Sound guys usually are horrible. Rare occurrence you can get what you need to perform.
Second: Show up to a gig and there are 2 monitor mixes, or less :(

With our setup, we use a splitter snake, split all the mic's on stage goes to us first, then to the FOH. No soundcheck needed, plug and play, no feedback, can hear everything perfectly, with 4 separate stereo monitor mixes.

Will never go back.
 
vangrieg said:
Not to mention that since drum mics need preamps, this is the most expensive part of mixing as well.
Click to expand...
Not true.. only condenser drum mics need preamps, and I've seldom seen those when working SR. Most drummers (or SR) folks I have worked with use good 'ole dynamic mics - everything (depending on taste and music style) from MD421, D112, D6, Beta52, PG52 to cheap CAD mics on kick to SM57, i5 and many other assortments on toms and overheads.
My own personal collection for drums includes Audix D6, AKG D112 and Shure Beta52. I also have Audix D4, D2, AX51, i5 and shure SM57's available.

but.. back to the OP - we run our own IEM mix so WE have control over our own mixes, both content and VOLUME!. I can adjust levels and pan (L/R). We are all wireless and control our mixes via Android/iDevices connected thru a router to our X32. Takes one song to sound check when using our own PA and 2 seconds to adjust a level in our IEM mix. We bring that rack (DSP and amps are in another) to all gigs, leaving the 2nd behind for house-provide PA gigs.
We always use our own drums, mics, DI's etc. We take a split from the house stage snake and map to our X32 inputs - so input channels are always the same (eg: 1 = kick, 9=bass, etc.). Takes a max of 2 songs during sound check for house PA to get the whole mix (IEM's included) down.. we don't worry about FOH.. .we have no control over it!
We do not use wedges... and to be honest..
given my IEM rig (Senn G3 IEM, Rev33 unit, 1964 Qi buds) you will have to drag me kicking and screaming back to wedges!
 
s0c9 said:
only condenser drum mics need preamps
Click to expand...

What do you mean - do you plug mics into line level inputs?

s0c9 said:
you will have to drag me kicking and screaming back to wedges!
Click to expand...

Well, I have no desire to go back to wedges myself, although I still use them for backup in case my wireless system fails.

Another thing is having something relatively loud on stage for acoustic feedback. I usually have a cab for that but that's for bigger venues, sometimes wedges work better in terms of how the overall mix sounds.

Speaking of wedges, does anybody use a combination of wireless and wedges? I personally love wireless, but two of our band members totally refuse to spend money on it, so they do it the old fashioned way. :) Anyway, if you have a combination with wedges, does your own mixer help in these cases?

Thanks again for your replies!
 
My 2 cents worth. I personally love my IEMs with the X32, have been using it for 2 years now. The ONLY draw back I have found is that I can only hear MY mix in my IEMs, so I have no idea what mix the sound guy has made in FOH. This is a problem for me when I am trying to use my volume pedal to go above and below the mix as I play. All I can do is assume that he (or she) has mixed me the same way as I have but most of the time my AFX cuts through the mix so well that I'm pretty much always out in the front!! :) So I have to play VERY well as a result...! :)
 
vangrieg said:
What do you mean - do you plug mics into line level inputs?
Click to expand...
Sorry.. confusion over terminology.. as a long-time SR guy, I have always equated "preamps" to phantom power needs, not the meaning of preamps you refer to in an XLR connection to a mixer - since they ALL have them by definition. Of course one can always transform XLR to 1/4 into a line level input, but I wouldn't recommend it. :eek:

So technically - yes, dynamic mics I referenced above would need preamps (XLR inputs) on ANY console - digital or analog.

On the wedges question.. we still have one guitar player in this band stuck on a wedge. He's coming around slowly - after his audiologist told him to go IEM or lose what's left of his hearing. Right now, his mix is simply another output buss (mono) feed from the X32 to an amp that powers the wedge. He adjusts his wedge mix using the same device(s) we do to mix our IEM's.
 
vangrieg said:
Well, I have no desire to go back to wedges myself, although I still use them for backup in case my wireless system fails.
Click to expand...
Why? you have to lug around all that extra gear and hook it up as a backup.. how do you swap mixes to a wedge if your wireless fails? Why is that different that having a wedge fail - if (for example) someone dumps a drink over it? Worse damae for active wedges.

If my wireless dies (usually crappy battery management on my part), I pull the buds, and listen to the FOH PA until I can get fresh batteries installed.
That said.. I have not [ever] had a wireless system fail.
But - If you are pro touring band (we're not - we all have day jobs) you'll have redundant backups in place. .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom