A question for those with lots of live Fractal experience...

hbucker

hbucker

Inspired
I'm wondering if you've found that changing between different patches (specifically different amps and IRs) in a band scenario, drives the sound guy/gal bonkers?

As I'm putting patches together for a band, my inclination is to think that while changing patches, I should maybe try to use the same/similar IRs so that my guitar sits in the mix in similar ways from patch to patch.

What is your experience with this? Do you run into problems with the mix when different IRs and amps are used? Beyond having a super attentive, knowledgable person running the board, how do you compensate for this potential issue?

thx
 
The only problem I have run into is the varying levels of my patches. Just strictly going by the on-board VU meter leaves quite a bit of difference in perceived volume. Over time I have been able to balance my patches out a little better.
 
+1 on Levels.. as long as they are consistent, and your boosts are not crazy and there is headroom on the channel for boosts (if you do that), sound guys will stay out of your hair.
 
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I agree that levels need to be consistent. Honestly I have gotten into the mindset that if I were using a real amplifier live, my cleans, dirts, anything would be coming from the same cabinet. I use different amps certainly when I switch patches but I generally use the same IR for the entire nights set so I don't run into this problem often.
 
dpeterson said:
+1 on Levels.. as long as they are consistent, and your boosts are crazy and there is headroom on the channel for boosts (if you do that), sound guys will stay out of your hair.
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That's ALL I've ever done..level presets..which isn't always easy.. but not yet had a sound guy complain ( 9+yrs)
 
I almost always use the same cabinet. And live go between 3 amp sims. Most leads are the same prem and cab. Radical changes bless for a brief special effect I think would drive me crazy before it bugs the sound guy. Recording I use a lot of amp sims. Or amps. But live not so much. Effects change but amps and cab stay the same
 
10 years with FAS and managing levels is key to live shows, when switching patches AND Guitars. FWIW, I try to find a place where I can set a speaker up 20-30 feet away and really crank the volume, when I am trying to adjust my levels between presets. I find that doing this exercise at a fairly high volume makes for better results, than doing it at "bedroom" volumes.
 
Definitely need to have your presets all level or you will get some dirty looks from the soundguy. I use the same amp and IR all night so no switching amps and cabs. I just drop the input gain down to make my clean sound so no drastic change there either.
 
Two amp models, single Cab block, and matched levels.
 
Other than the on board VU meters how do you guys make sure levels really are consistent between patches?

I'm guessing crank it and use your ears?
 
Davus PG said:
Other than the on board VU meters how do you guys make sure levels really are consistent between patches?

I'm guessing crank it and use your ears?
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Get them as close as you can with the methods mentioned above. Then take them out into the trenches and see where they're at. Make a mental note of the ones that need something, make the changes, rinse and repeat......

I always have a volume pedal in every preset. That will let you lower the volume if needed.

Also, temporarily setup 1 switch as a clean 4dB boost (Filter block after the Amp block?) for when you may be too quite. 4dB might be too much sometimes, but you can use the volume pedal to back it off a bit.
 
yeah i don't do the whole different amp for every song thing....not only has it been jarring to FOH but it is to me as well. I could play a 70 song set in Nashville with two amp models.
 
Davus PG said:
Other than the on board VU meters how do you guys make sure levels really are consistent between patches?

I'm guessing crank it and use your ears?
Click to expand...
Yep. I use the VU meter and get as loud as I can at the house and practice against backing tracks. Then when I'm at band rehearsal going through songs I'll make notes on things that need to be tweaked. Clean was to loud or too low etc...
 
Davus PG said:
Other than the on board VU meters how do you guys make sure levels really are consistent between patches?

I'm guessing crank it and use your ears?
Click to expand...
Practicing against backing tracks is a good method as well; you hear it against real music instead of using your ears to try to guess - this even helps if you're in headphones. A db meter can be useful too... there are a number of free ones for iPhone and I assume also for Droid. But there still is no real substitute for 'how it sounds in the mix.'

Also, I have two EXP switches set up for Vol Incr/Decr to help me dial the levels in at practice and even on stage if needed.
 
i use about 12 different amp/cab combinations regularly, plus several more for specific songs. all my patches are levelled using the waves WLM plugin, which has a handy "average" readout, which makes it very easy. i also have two buttons on my controller assigned to cc35 and cc36, so i can make any adjustments on the fly (usually just for new patches). never had a problem.
 
I used to use the Waves WLM plugin, MeldaProduction MLoudnessAnalyzer ( https://www.meldaproduction.com/MLoudnessAnalyzer ) and Orban Free Loudness Meter ( https://www.orban.com/free-orban-loudness-meter ).

I now use the Pink Noise mixing technique. If you're not familiar with it, do a google search for Pink Noise Mixing. What's great about this technique is that it works with almost any speakers or headphones because you're using the pink noise as a reference.

I'm not near my Axe-Fx II and I don't own an AX8 but I think they both have a similar Synth Block. I use the Synth Block to make Pink Noise and then I adjust it's volume, so it's -10dB below peaking but make lead presets louder. I then play my guitar and adjust the Amp Block level, so I can just barely hear it. Then do the same thing to your other presets. I find that this technique translates very well in a mix. I also, use this technique for adjusting and balancing EQ.

If you're new to using Pink Noise for adjusting EQ, try using a Graphic EQ Block and listen to what happens when you increase and decrease different bands. Depending on how you want your tone to sound, you can adjust some of the EQ bands to be louder or softer than the Pink Noise. After EQing, you will probably have to re-adjust your Amp Block level. Once you you feel comfortable with the Graphic EQ Block, try experimenting with the Parametric EQ Block. This technique has really helped me learn how to shape my tone and learn how different frequencies affect my tone in a mix.


Here's a good example:
 
I use the same IR for all my live presets.

While I did change to this, one IR for all presets, from reading other users experiences, I've found I like it better too. We play mostly with wedges and the consistent tone from the wedges is less fatiguing to me. I also like my tones a touch on the dark side for the same reason; less fatiguing when playing a 3 set show with the wedges loud.

My live presets use 2 - 3 amp blocks. I add in some gonzo sounds like violin or moog or ac guitar sim too.
 
GotMetalBoy said:
I used to use the Waves WLM plugin, MeldaProduction MLoudnessAnalyzer ( https://www.meldaproduction.com/MLoudnessAnalyzer ) and Orban Free Loudness Meter ( https://www.orban.com/free-orban-loudness-meter ).

I now use the Pink Noise mixing technique. If you're not familiar with it, do a google search for Pink Noise Mixing. What's great about this technique is that it works with almost any speakers or headphones because you're using the pink noise as a reference.

I'm not near my Axe-Fx II and I don't own an AX8 but I think they both have a similar Synth Block. I use the Synth Block to make Pink Noise and then I adjust it's volume, so it's -10dB below peaking but make lead presets louder. I then play my guitar and adjust the Amp Block level, so I can just barely hear it. Then do the same thing to your other presets. I find that this technique translates very well in a mix. I also, use this technique for adjusting and balancing EQ.

If you're new to using Pink Noise for adjusting EQ, try using a Graphic EQ Block and listen to what happens when you increase and decrease different bands. Depending on how you want your tone to sound, you can adjust some of the EQ bands to be louder or softer than the Pink Noise. After EQing, you will probably have to re-adjust your Amp Block level. Once you you feel comfortable with the Graphic EQ Block, try experimenting with the Parametric EQ Block. This technique has really helped me learn how to shape my tone and learn how different frequencies affect my tone in a mix.


Here's a good example:
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing... I'll be watching this later.
 
FAS for 7 years now. As has been said, use the VU meters and then fine tune from there. If you can set up your gear in a larger venue, then use a wireless or have someone play your rig and scroll through your presets. Some presets cut better than others and as such may appear to be "louder" to the sound guy. Playing your rig at a distance can help you sort out which presets seem louder. Just my 0.2.
 
The only problem I've ran into with multiple amps, even though the levels are matched is some sit well in the mix and some get lost. Try and makes sure they all cut well eq wise.
 
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