A little advice please on loss of volume

andyp13

Power User
I am going Left out of my Axe into my Matrix GT800 amp - Guitar cab. and right out of the Axe to FOH
see diagram - I am getting a great sound but the total volume of the axe is much quieter?
if i centre the balance 3 (panned fully right) and mute the cab so it doesnt go through the guitar cab it is significantly louder. Am I missing something?
I cant centre the balance as the cab sim will then come through the guitar cab instead of the FOH only.
My outputs 3+4 are in use so I cant use them for FOH.

Screenshot 2017-07-21 12.08.56.png
 
Each of the 4 rows of the grid is a left+right signal.
This means that panning the signal to one side will make it less loud than the two sides combined (no panning).
 
Panning law isn't it?

Usually it's somewhere around 3dB difference between centre panned and fully panned so perhaps increase Level 4 by that amount to see if it gives you the mono signal strength you want to the Matrix.
 
Ahh, it's balance 3 that is the output to the amp and guitar speaker - so if I increase the volume (above the balance control) that should do it, would it have any effect upon the clip?
 
"3" is the row number.

So, judging from the picture, Balance 3 pans the output of row 3 with the Cab block to the right, to FOH.

Balance 4 controls the output of the 4th row, which is the one bypassing the Cab block and which is panned to the left, so that should go the Matrix and guitar speaker.
 
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Just added +4db on level 4 - seems to have done the trick.
Had to leave level 3 at 0db as an increase on this clips the Axe, so will leave it as it is. Thanks for the help.
 
Level 3 is to FOH so no real need to boost it - the desk channel input gain will sort that one out.

Your only issue is going to be controlling stage volume without affecting FOH signal level ..... you'd need to use the input level knob on the Matrix rather than the Output 1 knob on the front of the AxeFX
 
Panning law isn't it?

Pan law (0 dB for balance controls) isn't too relevant to the question in the OP, which seems to be "Why does the left output get louder when summing a second copy of the signal with original?" That's what moving row 3 balance from right to center (with cab block thru-bypassed) does. The pan law would affect the exact gain amount, but you're adding level to that channel in any case.

The cab block can make the average level higher or lower compared to a shunt. That depends on the selected IR and other cab block settings.
 
Ok ....... yes, when explained like that you're right ......

I saw it from the reverse angle and got sort of thrown out by the initial statement of "..... but the total volume of the axe is much quieter" - indicating there was a reduction of signal needing replaced and the extreme panning in place which I assumed was a new method of routing being used.
 
agreed. that means there's no headroom for playing hard or a lead boost.
With this setting I have found the level too quiet if I don't boost the level 4 control.
With my previous settings (not going into FOH so balance in the centre) I would have the axe set to around quarter 2, matrix chan on full and loads of volume, With the new setup (above) my axe is at 12 o'clock - and there is no increase in volume from that setting to full on (volume level remains the same) I'm not using compression.
But you guys say I will not have the headroom to play hard or to boost lead etc... That's a worry, but with the original setting I don't have the volume (we are not a loud band), should I look at bridging the matrix?
 
With my previous settings (not going into FOH so balance in the centre) I would have the axe set to around quarter 2, matrix chan on full and loads of volume, With the new setup (above) my axe is at 12 o'clock - and there is no increase in volume from that setting to full on (volume level remains the same) I'm not using compression.
That means something is being overdriven downstream—like maybe the input to the Matrix. With the Ax'es outputs at or near clipping, setting the oupt knob to noon will give a pretty hot signal.
 
Yes, something's not set or connected right. Axe + GT800 should be able to get very loud, with lots of headroom in the digital domain. No need to bridge.

Note that the GT gets a lot louder between 12 and 3 o'clock on its level knob.

You're using a regular instrument cable between Axe-Fx and GT800, and a speaker cable from GT800 to speaker?
The GT800 is in stereo mode, using just A or B?

Take a look at the Global EQ. Is the MAIN slider at 0, for OUT1 as well as OUT2?
 
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Hear are my hardware settings -

Axe FX Global eq is at 0 db.
Axe FX to GT800 are XLR out to XLR in.
GT800 to Cab - Spekon to spekon speaker cable
GT800 set to Parallel.
 
With this setting I have found the level too quiet if I don't boost the level 4 control.
With my previous settings (not going into FOH so balance in the centre) I would have the axe set to around quarter 2, matrix chan on full and loads of volume, With the new setup (above) my axe is at 12 o'clock - and there is no increase in volume from that setting to full on (volume level remains the same) I'm not using compression.
But you guys say I will not have the headroom to play hard or to boost lead etc... That's a worry, but with the original setting I don't have the volume (we are not a loud band), should I look at bridging the matrix?
For your reference, I run my GT800FX in stereo with the level controls about 1 o'clock and my Axe Fx output at 35% (per the Utility menu) and it's pretty damn loud.

Edit: I use short George Ls cables from Axe Fx to Matrix, not XLR.
 
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