A Lesson In Personal Setup

I had this experience too. When I downloaded Cygnus and scrolled through the new presets… I hated almost all of them.

I think there’s a lot more going on with this phenomena. A friend of mine who is one of the best players I’ve ever heard… got the chance to play through Robben Ford’s rig. He hated it, it was way too bright for him.

Regardless of guitars, pickups, monitor and other external differences, what you play and your touch go a long way. Now that said, I think there is something even bigger going on.

I think our mind does different things when we’re listening to someone play vs when we actually play…. Whether it’s the same gear or not. The sound we hear and how we feel the guitar response to our touch while playing are really intertwined. We get used to how our playing sounds under our fingers and the response we get.

When we play through someone else’s rig or settings, that whole relationship changes and we’re constantly trying to reference what we know and like to what we actually are hearing. When we’re just listening to someone play, we’re just… listening. That other person dialed up a sound they like for what they play… an

Recently, I was trying to recreate the “I’m the one” sound. I got pretty darn close. It sounds great when I’m playing I’m the one… but I would NEVER use that sound for any of my own stuff!

This might not make any sense and I could be completely wrong!

Sean Meredith-Jones
 
smj said:
I had this experience too. When I downloaded Cygnus and scrolled through the new presets… I hated almost all of them.

I think there’s a lot more going on with this phenomena. A friend of mine who is one of the best players I’ve ever heard… got the chance to play through Robben Ford’s rig. He hated it, it was way too bright for him.

Regardless of guitars, pickups, monitor and other external differences, what you play and your touch go a long way. Now that said, I think there is something even bigger going on.

I think our mind does different things when we’re listening to someone play vs when we actually play…. Whether it’s the same gear or not. The sound we hear and how we feel the guitar response to our touch while playing are really intertwined. We get used to how our playing sounds under our fingers and the response we get.

When we play through someone else’s rig or settings, that whole relationship changes and we’re constantly trying to reference what we know and like to what we actually are hearing. When we’re just listening to someone play, we’re just… listening. That other person dialed up a sound they like for what they play… an

Recently, I was trying to recreate the “I’m the one” sound. I got pretty darn close. It sounds great when I’m playing I’m the one… but I would NEVER use that sound for any of my own stuff!

This might not make any sense and I could be completely wrong!

Sean Meredith-Jones
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Sean,

What you're saying does make sense, but it's mostly because of our individual physiologies (read: our ear canals, our sinuses, our head shape) that causes the difference in perception. It's because each of us has individual qualities we were born with that causes differences in hearing.

If we're actively listening, we're thinking about the how's and why's of music (read: how did the guitarist make that sound good; why do open-chord triads sound richer and fuller than standard barred chords, etc). If we're passively listening, we might just be tapping our toes, or nodding our heads, or neither, just hearing.

It's also likely because each of us has our own abilities to play what we like to hear, well. We often judge each other quickly before we've experienced a chance to truly listen to each other. What may be "old hat" to some may be new to you, and vice-versa. For example, you may enjoy listening to the sound of a loved one's voice, but dislike when their tone becomes harsh. In that instance, it's not what's being said, but how the person is saying it. The key to remember is how you respond to what's being said can often change a person's way of saying things for the better, or worse.

The same principle is true for how others playing guitar respond to us. If we're quick to judge before hearing others make their case (play their song), we may not fully appreciate what we might like. The point is, if we try to look for the good qualities before we find fault with something, we less likely develop a negative attitude that would cause us to tear down others, or criticize them, instead of building them up, or encouraging them.

As others have previously said, it's entirely good to praise someone for their good work, and counsel them while tactfully showing them how to improve. However, most people today would simply complain about something without providing counsel or a solution. This is most of how today's society is.

Regards your friend, I'd be surprised if he couldn't find several amps, effects and cabs he did like, instead of quickly judging RF's rig as too "bright." For the same reason, I find Vox amps bright, but its because of the tubes, not the fault of the amp design. If your friend has a chance, ask him to try the ODS-100 presets instead of the Ford rigs. He might enjoy these more than the RF presets.

Regards the OP, it may be a matter of perception based on our own abilities, our own room acoustics, our gear (both rig and recording). There are many variables to consider before flatly rejecting someone else's work as sounding "like crap" on your system. The answer is that if you give people good things, you'll likely receive them in return as well. Sorry that the OP's system didn't sound good with the downloaded preset.
 
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bleujazz3 said:
Regards the OP, it may be a matter of perception based on our own abilities, our own room acoustics, our gear (both rig and recording). There are many variables to consider before flatly rejecting someone else's work as sounding "like crap" on your system. The answer is that if you give people good things, you'll likely receive them in return as well. Sorry that the OP's system didn't sound good with the downloaded preset.
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1. Acknowledged many variables including innate abilities and gear? Check!

2. Gave "good things?" Check! (Utter praise for the preset maker's tone in his hands, and in no way judged him or held him responsible for my dissatisfaction.)

3. Turned the situation into a net positive learning experience? Check!

4. No need for anyone to be sorry? Check! (see 3., above)
 
I could literally use anyone's entire rig...their guitar, their amp, speaker, guitar pic, etc...and it STILL won't sound the same.
Everything from where you strike the strings in relation to the bridge and neck, to the aggressiveness or lack thereof of picking style. etc. etc.

I can make my own rig sound fatter simply by finding the "Sweet spot" on the guitar to strike the strings in relation to distance from the bridge.

And then of course there's other factors involved...the way you barre the chords, the vibrato in your lead technique...it's endless.
Best to just create your own sound in my opinion.
 
Robbie Boyette said:
I could literally use anyone's entire rig...their guitar, their amp, speaker, guitar pic, etc...and it STILL won't sound the same.
Everything from where you strike the strings in relation to the bridge and neck, to the aggressiveness or lack thereof of picking style. etc. etc.

I can make my own rig sound fatter simply by finding the "Sweet spot" on the guitar to strike the strings in relation to distance from the bridge.

And then of course there's other factors involved...the way you barre the chords, the vibrato in your lead technique...it's endless.
Best to just create your own sound in my opinion.
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I totally agree with you on picking technique but how is chord barring going to affect tone?

I mean if you are barring the chord correctly, aside from muting or squeezing note(s) sharp, unless this is what you are referring to there shouldn't be any difference in tone as the strings are touching the frets.
 
Another thing is when I listen to these preset demos they are often playing along with a backing track and I won't be after downloading it. Big difference there.
 
Sixstring said:
I totally agree with you on picking technique but how is chord barring going to affect tone?

I mean if you are barring the chord correctly, aside from muting or squeezing note(s) sharp, unless this is what you are referring to there shouldn't be any difference in tone as the strings are touching the frets.
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I'm of the opinion that every thing about the way our hands and the guitar interact has a tonal effect.
For instance...Angus Young. He used those giant gauge strings and had to really dig in when he made chords...I use .009's and don't have to fret very hard at all (even though I do anyway)
That part of the equation is just my opinion. But I would assume that the "touch" in the hand barring chords has an effect.
 
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When was the preset posted? What version of the firmware was it created on?

It's important to remember the internet never forgets, but things will eventually become stale. A preset created for Ares isn't going to sound the same on Cygnus.
 
Robbie Boyette said:
I'm of the opinion that every thing about the way our hands and the guitar interact has a tonal effect.
For instance...Angus Young. He used those giant gauge strings and had to really dig in when he made chords...I use .009's and don't have to fret very hard at all (even though I do anyway)
That part of the equation is just my opinion. But I would assume that the "touch" in the hand barring chords has an effect.
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Yes. Everything matters.

An amp with a drive in front of it can make a squeak as you slide along the string. It makes a shorter squeak when your finger dives in and lands at a given fret. One guitarist can use those squeaks for percussive effect, giving one sound when he hammers on straight down and another sound when he approaches that fret from the side, and varying the intensity of the squeak for dramatic purposes. To another guitarist, those squeaks are just unavoidable noise, and not a part of the song.

Everything matters.
 
Robbie Boyette said:
I'm of the opinion that every thing about the way our hands and the guitar interact has a tonal effect.
For instance...Angus Young. He used those giant gauge strings and had to really dig in when he made chords...I use .009's and don't have to fret very hard at all (even though I do anyway)
That part of the equation is just my opinion. But I would assume that the "touch" in the hand barring chords has an effect.
Click to expand...
I understand your point with the nuances but I still have a hard time with barring chords affecting tone. If done the right way my fretting hand shouldn't sound any different then yours! If it was a fretless guitar then all bets are off. My beat up cut up hands are going to sound drastically different then anyone else's... Ha, I have pictures that can prove!
 
Sixstring said:
I understand your point with the nuances but I still have a hard time with barring chords affecting tone. If done the right way my fretting hand shouldn't sound any different then yours! If it was a fretless guitar then all bets are off. My beat up cut up hands are going to sound drastically different then anyone else's... Ha, I have pictures that can prove!
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Even barre chords matter.

Is your barre clean? Do you sometimes get that pesky G-string mute? Are you strumming that barre and using your fretting hand as a rhythmic mute? If so, how cleanly are you bringing that mute in and out? Are you muting some strings more than others accidentally? Intentionally?

It all matters.
 
Rex said:
Even barre chords matter.

Is your barre clean? Do you sometimes get that pesky G-string mute? Are you strumming that barre and using your fretting hand as a rhythmic mute? If so, how cleanly are you bringing that mute in and out? Are you muting some strings more than others accidentally? Intentionally?

It all matters.
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My Barre chords are the cleanest around! I even get complements on how I hold chords, that's no joke either. though I always laugh when it happens!
 
Sixstring said:
My Barre chords are the cleanest around! I even get complements on how I hold chords, that's no joke either. though I always laugh when it happens!
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That's why your barre chords sound better than other people's. To the point that people hear the difference. ;)
 
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