A depressing realization (and unpopular opinion): most of the amps sound very similar.

I wouldn't say depressing or unpopular...I'd say expected. 10 different of the same type through the same cab/speaker will sound very, very similar. There are only a few different topologies...
 
All I am saying is that a lot of amps sound very similar to the point where any differences are usually hair splitting. And after a few minutes of playing an amp, your ears adjust, and you forget about the difference.

I set the tone stack at noon. input gain at 10, master volume at 10. and just cycled through each of the low/mid gain amps. A lot of them sounded the same, some of them sounded slightly different but it wasn't night and day.

I see a lot of players complaining how their tone doesn't have enough bass, treble, etc. I would think it would make sense to get a good EQ pedal and put it after everything in your chain. That should be able to let you dial in your tone very specifically.

But most guitarists don't want to admit that, and would rather just buy a new amp.

I'm not saying you can get a Twin Reverb to sound like a Dual Recto with an EQ pedal, but if you take two amps that have a similar amount of gain, I would assume the differences wouldn't be that drastic that you couldn't dial it in with a EQ pedal.
 
I set the tone stack at noon. input gain at 10, master volume at 10. and just cycled through each of the low/mid gain amps. A lot of them sounded the same, some of them sounded slightly different but it wasn't night and day.

Why? When you play a physical amp do you crank the drive and master volume? Most people don't... And most amps are not designed to be set that way - for one thing, they would tend to be very loud, they would likely be very compressed and have minimal dynamics.

Why don't you try loading up each amp and then do a reset of the Amp block to get a default values? This would be a more realistic comparison.
 
Most low to mid gain amps are combo's with their own speakers and enclosures (fender, supro, vox, matchless, etc). Cycling through the preamps into the same cab impulse won't do much in the way of showcasing them. Try going through yeks preset collection at stock settings for a more honest representation
 
Why? When you play a physical amp do you crank the drive and master volume? Most people don't... And most amps are not designed to be set that way - for one thing, they would tend to be very loud, they would likely be very compressed and have minimal dynamics.

Why don't you try loading up each amp and then do a reset of the Amp block to get a default values? This would be a more realistic comparison.

Well I already discovered that no matter which amp model I use, the higher the master volume, the better the sound gets to me. However someone else mentioned that this is a side effect of playing at low volumes. Thing is, low volumes is what I am stuck with, and don't ever expect to play at higher volume levels. That's one of the main reasons I got the unit. To be able to have good tones at low volume levels, like reasonable TV volume level.

The lower the Master, the more sterile the tone sounds to me.

Anyways a lot of this was an experiment, I was just curious.
 
Well I already discovered that no matter which amp model I use, the higher the master volume, the better the sound gets to me. However someone else mentioned that this is a side effect of playing at low volumes. Thing is, low volumes is what I am stuck with, and don't ever expect to play at higher volume levels. That's one of the main reasons I got the unit. To be able to have good tones at low volume levels, like reasonable TV volume level.

The lower the Master, the more sterile the tone sounds to me.

Anyways a lot of this was an experiment, I was just curious.
The MV setting is going to be relative to the particular amp model or "flavor"... You're going to get very different results doing that on a Marshall versus a Mesa versus a Fender... And, as already mentioned, some amps are non-MV so those should typically be set to 10.

And on top of that setting Input Drive on 10 will further exaggerate the effect.
 
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Well I already discovered that no matter which amp model I use, the higher the master volume, the better the sound gets to me. However someone else mentioned that this is a side effect of playing at low volumes. Thing is, low volumes is what I am stuck with, and don't ever expect to play at higher volume levels. That's one of the main reasons I got the unit. To be able to have good tones at low volume levels, like reasonable TV volume level.

The lower the Master, the more sterile the tone sounds to me.

Anyways a lot of this was an experiment, I was just curious.
That's definitely the low volume talking. I get that you're stuck with it, and I sympathize. But try this:

Beg, steal or borrow a good pair of headphones. Turn off your monitors, and crank some decent volume through the 'phones. It doesn't have to be ear-splitting; just big and beefy. You'll hear differences that you never dreamed were in there.

Then try some of the high-gainers at varying Master Volume levels. Be sure to adjust Amp Level to compensate for the differences in level as you mess with MV. You'll discover why a dimed MV isn't always the best.
 
That's definitely the low volume talking. I get that you're stuck with it, and I sympathize. But try this:

Beg, steal or borrow a good pair of headphones. Turn off your monitors, and crank some decent volume through the 'phones. It doesn't have to be ear-splitting; just big and beefy. You'll hear differences that you never dreamed were in there.

Then try some of the high-gainers at varying Master Volume levels. Be sure to adjust Amp Level to compensate for the differences in level as you mess with MV. You'll discover why a dimed MV isn't always the best.
I'd also recommend some ambient or studio verb at the end of the chain though headphones, makes it feel less direct.
 
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I'd also recommend some ambient or studio verb at the end of the chain though headphones, makes it feel less direct.

Yeah, and a little goes a long way when you're in headphones, don't hesitate to put the mix levels to near single digits. I find that intentional verb that sounds "way too much" in headphones is barely noticeable when played through monitor speakers, so i compensate with linking to the global to add more percentage or remove it depending on the situation.
 
Well I already discovered that no matter which amp model I use, the higher the master volume, the better the sound gets to me. However someone else mentioned that this is a side effect of playing at low volumes. Thing is, low volumes is what I am stuck with, and don't ever expect to play at higher volume levels. That's one of the main reasons I got the unit. To be able to have good tones at low volume levels, like reasonable TV volume level.

The lower the Master, the more sterile the tone sounds to me.

Anyways a lot of this was an experiment, I was just curious.

As others have already I would suggest taking a different approach to demo'ing each amp. For those amp models whose real-world counterpart have no master volume set it all the way up. For those with a master volume do a search here and on forums where the physical amp is popular, find out what the sweet spot seems to be, and set the master volume similarly. Pick a cabinet IR from the stock list that best matches that used with the real amp - this is especially important for combo amps where the speaker/cab impart much of that particular amps character. For head & cab combinations pick a cab most often used for the amps expected sound (Mesa 4x12 with a Mesa Rec amp, Marshall 4x12 w/ greenbacks with a Marshall JTM45, 4x12 w/ G1265's with a JCM800, Orange 4x12 with an Orange head, etc. Set input gain according to how you would be likely to use the amp and adjust the tone stack (and presence, where applicable) to taste. Find songs where the amp you're working with was used in the recording and try to adjust the input gain and tone stack to cop the basic recorded sound (keeping in mind that many more factors are at play in the recorded track (mic's used, mic placement, many tracks are doubled, effects used). The ides is to try to capture the general character of that particular model as used in a familiar recording. Even if you aren't able to get too close to the target you should have separated the various models out more closely to how they may be used in the real world and the differences between them is likely to become more apparent.

Low volume playing will have an impact on your results but not so much so that they will sound alike with an approach like that outlined above. I have several different monitoring solutions (a pair of active CLR's, a pair of active nearfield monitors (Equator D5's), and several headphone sets (Beyerdynamic, Philips, Audio-Technica, Sennheiser) including in-car's, and several different amps that I use to drive the phones. I mostly play at a fairly low volume (level) and occasionally play loud just because it's fun, or to take advantage of the interaction between the strings and speaker when recording (and when feasible). Most times low volume keeps my family happy so low it is.

I have the advantage of having owned many of the vintage amps modeled in the past, more often than not at the same time as I was collecting (and making use of) vintage tube guitar and bass amps so I've had ample opportunity to hear many of them side-by-side. Some Fender Blackface amps sound quite similar in voicing but begin to differ when they start to break up (difference in output power, rectifier type, speaker type/size, fixed or variable mid frequency, presence or no, etc. are all potential factors). Tweeds differ one model to the next for similar reasons. Vox amps, Marshall amps, etc. - the same is true.

You'll certainly notice more difference in greater detail at higher volume but the differences should be quite discernable at all but the lowest monitoring levels.

Then there's 'feel' or response. This characteristic alone can alter how you personally interact with any given amp. You'll likely find that you have a preference between slow and fast response, between a tight and loose/spongy feel, etc. Some folks just use these varying characteristics to their advantage based on the amp they're playing through.

I can tell you this; the differences between the various amp models in the AxeFX II are definitely apparent, and quite accurate as well - even at lower monitoring levels - when the amp models are set up and used as are their real-world counterparts.

As others have already noted using the same preset, same settings, same cab IR while rolling through preamp types will yield results so similar it wouldn't be worth the time spent. Likewise, rolling through different amp models with the same settings and the same cab IR will yield very similar results with potentially more difference in feel than in audible differences. It may seem counter intuitive but comparisons with common variables in place (master, gain, tonestack, and cab IR) will yield results showing far more common ground than different.

The right cab IR will make all the difference in the world. For an example build a basic preset with a Fender tweed Bassman amp (stock settings across the board) and two cab blocks in parallel. Load one cab block with a Bassman 4x10 and the other with a 4x12 loaded with greenback celestions). Set both cab blocks bypass to 'Mute Out'. Set scene 1 with the Bassman cab active and the 4x12 bypassed, and set scene 2 with the Bassman cab bypassed. You should be able to note the difference immediately where the tweed Bassman only sounds like a tweed Bassman when played through the Bassman 4x10 cab.

You could take this one step further by adding a second amp block in parallel with the first, both with bypass set to 'Mute Out', and set the second amp block up with a Marshall JTM45 with stock settings. Set up 4 scenes instead of 2, with each scene covering the 4 possible combinations (Bassman amp w/ Bassman 4x10 cab, Bassman amp w/ Marshall 4x12, JTM45 w/ Bassman 4x10 cab, and JTM45 w/ Marshall 4x12). This should highlight the differences between the Bassman and the JTM45 when each is paired with its own cab while showing just how similar the two amps sound through the same cab IR. I picked these two amps specifically because one is a circuit clone of the other with DC coupling capacitor manufacturer, transformer manufacturer, tube types and manufacturer, and output impedance differing.

I didn't think to ask until just now; What are you using for monitoring (nearfields? Brand/model? Headphones?). Consumer monitors are all over the place. Some have enough of their own color/character that they will tend to blur the lines further supporting the perception that all amps of a similar gain level sound similar. Though I was able to differentiate between the various amp models when I was using a pair of KRK Rokit 5 powered monitors many characteristics were somewhat indistinct. When I replaced the KRK's with the Equator's those vague differences suddenly became quite clear and distinct.

Your mileage may vary, of course. Given that you already own the AxeFX II and less than pleased with your observations indicating that models sound too similar. It costs nothing to take a different approach. If you have any reason to suspect that your monitors are contributing to your expressed observation then look into running the same comparisons through a borrowed set of nearfield known to have a relatively full frequency / flat response. If you don't know anyone with quality nearfield then ask the forum here if anyone in your area would be willing to host a demo.
 
All monitoring is different. Personally after a year on Eqyators I dislike them as much as M Audio.
And room liberties are the same at any volume, it's ears and their eq and compression schemes that change it.
 
Sanity check.

If this were true, the amp industry would have died off roughly 60 years ago, and relied only on pedals and studio tricks. The OP is welcome to their opinion, but this is so patently untrue it's amazing to me this has lasted for 6 pages of thread.

Ron
Your making a big assumption about a cottage industry that doesn't hold water. Particularly since you also have psycho acoustic perception and human nature play into this.
We don't like things cause it sounds good, it sounds good cause we like it. Just as we perceive slightly louder as better in A/B.
 
agreed. we say we know what we like but we really like what we know. The herd mentality of message forums is tacet proof of this to me, lol.

Your making a big assumption about a cottage industry that doesn't hold water. Particularly since you also have psycho acoustic perception and human nature play into this.
We don't like things cause it sounds good, it sounds good cause we like it. Just as we perceive slightly louder as better in A/B.
 
The first week I had my axe fx 2 XL+ I literally scrolled through every amp model available and adding cabinets I thought were useful. I eventually realized that some amps sounds extremely different and others similar yet nothing was 100% the same. However when you add cabinets and change mic proximity simulation it will really alter what the tone sounds like. I only use R121 simulation for the cabinets. In addition, I run a power amp into two real cabinets ( marshall 1960A and a carvin v3 cab). Once I found my favorite amps I tried every cab combinations in the cab blocks. It really just takes many hours, using the same guitar and tweaking for days-months-years.
 
agreed. we say we know what we like but we really like what we know. The herd mentality of message forums is tacet proof of this to me, lol.
That whole logic of the "amp industry" would've been gone is ludicrous...I mean how many guys have as their business model making a Plexi, IR Dumbke or AC30
 
For those who have yet to try, take a listen to what you get using reactive digital load boxes and good IRs. I can run my amps at settings no one could handle with a cabinet and then lower the monitor volume to speaking levels and it sounds good to me. I admit not everyone would like my sounds but using my amps with my Torpdo Studios gives me the sound I Like. I only wish FAS could provide all of the gear I need to do this.
 
For those who have yet to try, take a listen to what you get using reactive digital load boxes and good IRs. I can run my amps at settings no one could handle with a cabinet and then lower the monitor volume to speaking levels and it sounds good to me. I admit not everyone would like my sounds but using my amps with my Torpdo Studios gives me the sound I Like. I only wish FAS could provide all of the gear I need to do this.
I'm not sure I quite understand.

Do you think that your physical amps with a reactive load box and IRs sounds better than the Axe-Fx?
 
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