A depressing realization (and unpopular opinion): most of the amps sound very similar.

[Ed DeGenaro]

As both me and ML pointed out, the speaker is the great equalizer... Regardless if it's a cab IR sim.
It's an eq curve super imposed. That happens to be frequency dependant

 

[erockomania]

Personally, I think each amp should have ONLY the controls the amp actually has and the "under the hood" stuff on different pages. The Mesa should not have "depth", "bright switch" etc... as the main amp controls. IMHO, these can only get you out of range of the tones the amp will actually give you. I tend to use them to "mod" my amp to conform to my standards, but this really does create some homogenization and adds sonic footprints you can't get from the actual amp.

Having said that, I'm all for modding but I would love to see each amp's control mirrored on the first page so you treat it like the actual amp. It would be beneficial in more ways than one.

I have been using my Mesa Dual rec lately as I just picked up a Rivera Rock Crusher for studio use with tube amps. Out of curiosity, I pulled up the Fractal recto and found myself immediately trying to treat it as a fractal amp rather than the actual amp. Theoretically, I should be able to get that signature Recto sound from ONLY the basic controls.

 

[Lionheart]

I have been using my Mesa Dual rec lately as I just picked up a Rivera Rock Crusher for studio use with tube amps. Out of curiosity, I pulled up the Fractal recto and found myself immediately trying to treat it as a fractal amp rather than the actual amp. Theoretically, I should be able to get that signature Recto sound from ONLY the basic controls.

Interesting. So, which do you prefer? The real amp with a reactive load box using impulse responses? Or, the Axe-Fx model?

Just curious.

 

[erockomania]

Interesting. So, which do you prefer? The real amp with a reactive load box using impulse responses? Or, the Axe-Fx model?

Just curious.

I've never liked even one version of any of the rectifiers in the Axe. I feel it's one that's never been right. I prefer mine 100% of the time. I do have the old 2 channel but mine is basically plug and play. Put a tubescreamer-like pedal in front and done! I cannot do that at all with any of the Axe rectos. I can't get them to sound close to mine after tweaking for a while. I don't know why.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I can't say I really see the point in having a limitless virtual model, but then restricting it to just what the hardware amp can do.

What is the advantage to only having the controls of the real amp ?

How many times do we look at a real amp, and say, boy, I am so glad my Fender doesn't have a mids control to deal with.

It would be like having a racing video game, but having to drive below 60 mph, because that is how you have to drive the real world car on the street (or risk a pricey ticket, loss of license etc)

 

[Rex]

The only reason that I can see for something like an Axe FX is if (a) you want multiple tones, or (b) you're not sure about what you want.

There is also (c) you know exactly what you want, and you want the tools to dial it in to a gnat's ass. And (d) you know exactly what you want, but you want to discover what else there is.

And (e) you want to accomplish (a), (b), (c) or (d) without lugging fifty or a hundred pounds of stuff.

And (f) you want tight, integrated control of it all.


Anyway, who doesn't want (a) multiple tones? At least two or three.

 

[Lionheart]

How many times do we look at a real amp, and say, boy, I am so glad my Fender doesn't have a mids control to deal with.

I'm one of those people. I like simplicity more than tons of knobs and parameters. And, I know a few professional musicians with the same mindset. You guys would laugh at how minimalistic my presets are. I approach the Axe-Fx like a real amp and (usually) only fool with the basic knobs. I do spend most of my time, however, finding the perfect impulse response. That's just my approach. I'm old school. Do I still love the Axe-Fx? Hell yeah!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I think that ultimately the question is, "what do you want to sound like?" The only reason that I can see for something like an Axe FX is if (a) you want multiple tones, or (b) you're not sure about what you want.

If you really want only one tone, and can figure out an amp/cabinet and some pedals that can do it, you're done! Indeed, this seems to describe most famous artists, except perhaps for some that might be thought of as being an authentic "cover band" of their prior catalog, where they need to hit multiple historic tones; they might be (a).

I fall mainly into camp (b), although I tend to leave it on a "Dual Rectifier" [model] by default. If I ever learn to tweak better, I'll probably evolve into having multiple tones, and drift into (a).

That is when you believe that gear and not you dictates the hands.
I certainly didn't get my first Ultra at v4 nearly a decade ago cause I wasn't sure about what I wanted to sound like or wanted to expore other tones. At that time I used about 20 amps...I got it to use as an fx box.
I just happened to actually end up liking the Sims so I used it for years with Poweramp and cabs.
When I started travelling a lot I went to monitors. And then in ears.

Ten years and a few Ultras,2s MFCs, and Atomic Reactirs later I still dial the same tones I did then and just got a FX8.
I'm about to head out and the set up goes guitar fx8, Bogner XTC pedal, Calor 4 watt head, Atomic Amplire as IR loader.
Lately it spent a lot of time unused other than fx, except for recording and Q3 the top end made me fall in love with the box again.

Look at it this way I've been using and endorsing Fractal stuff since a decade and I've had this AxeFx2 and dragged it a few times around the world for 5 years.

 

[Rinkleton]

If you read any amp manual they usually say that as you crank the amp, the less the tone controls have an effect. So it makes sense that if you play all amps at 10 they will all start sounding same-y. Another user alluded to this earlier.

It is one of those things that seems depressing on the surface, but in the end it really empowers you to get over the emotional attachment to 'tubes' or to a brand name. It's like finding out your hot girlfriend used to be a dude. It freaks you out at first, but then you learn to enjoy it.

 

[Andrew Male]

99% 99.1% etc who cares.... All I know is the new IIC++ model is insane and I can't stop playing it (and I'm a Vox AC30 guy!)

 

[jzucker]

he didn't say he cranks the amps. He said he puts the master on 10. Big difference.

If you read any amp manual they usually say that as you crank the amp, the less the tone controls have an effect. So it makes sense that if you play all amps at 10 they will all start sounding same-y. Another user alluded to this earlier.

It is one of those things that seems depressing on the surface, but in the end it really empowers you to get over the emotional attachment to 'tubes' or to a brand name. It's like finding out your hot girlfriend used to be a dude. It freaks you out at first, but then you learn to enjoy it.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

If you read any amp manual they usually say that as you crank the amp, the less the tone controls have an effect. So it makes sense that if you play all amps at 10 they will all start sounding same-y. Another user alluded to this earlier.

It is one of those things that seems depressing on the surface, but in the end it really empowers you to get over the emotional attachment to 'tubes' or to a brand name. It's like finding out your hot girlfriend used to be a dude. It freaks you out at first, but then you learn to enjoy it.

You mean because of the power stage compressing and making the response less spikey?
I'm kinda no following were talking about Sims that are used into IRs and with that the smoothing frim the speaker and the mic come into play.
So that seems like a moot point...

But what has an Amos eq to do with anything? You think cranked it flat it can't be changed? Why you think you have options of mic pre/channel strip/tape machine in your cab block.

And more importantly when I see how guys like ML have to explain how to dial a 2++ then the reality of discussion tone with the guys that can't figure this is kinda moot.

 

[Brownmatthall]

he didn't say he cranks the amps. He said he puts the master on 10. Big difference.

? Opening the master volume all the way up is absolutely "cranking" an amp

 

[Lionheart]

? Opening the master volume all the way up is absolutely "cranking" an amp

 

[rich2k4]

I'd also speculate that when the amps are in the same room as you, you can perceive a difference much more than when they are recorded with a mic.

 

[Rinkleton]

I mean 10 as in the max setting on the Axe Fx, not 10 oclock.

You mean because of the power stage compressing and making the response less spikey?
I'm kinda no following were talking about Sims that are used into IRs and with that the smoothing frim the speaker and the mic come into play.
So that seems like a moot point...

But what has an Amos eq to do with anything? You think cranked it flat it can't be changed? Why you think you have options of mic pre/channel strip/tape machine in your cab block.

And more importantly when I see how guys like ML have to explain how to dial a 2++ then the reality of discussion tone with the guys that can't figure this is kinda moot.

The original post was about amps sounding the same. It doesn't matter what cab you use, real or modeled, or what it does the the sound or what other tools you might use to change EQ. All that has nothing to do with that an "amp" does to the sound. (As evidenced by the video he posted). Also, "dialing" in a sound is very different than cranking an amp. If I were dialing in a sound I would make sure I did not crank the amp because that can dampen dynamics.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/3chRecto.pdf
Page 11 (labeled page 7) - first paragraph

 

[5150]

? Opening the master volume all the way up is absolutely "cranking" an amp

I think Jack is referring to the amp sims in the Axe. "Non-master volume" amps default with the master volume knob on the model set to 10. This doesn't mean the modeled amp is cranked, as we normally use the word. In order to "crank" it, you use the input control, which acts like the "volume" control on a non-MV amp.

IOW, a Plexi -- as modeled in the Axe -- is not cranked when the master volume knob is on 10, but the input knob is on 1. This would result in a clean, non-distorted, non-cranked sound.

 

[Brownmatthall]

I think Jack is referring to the amp sims in the Axe. "Non-master volume" amps default with the master volume knob on the model set to 10. This doesn't mean the modeled amp is cranked, as we normally use the word. In order to "crank" it, you use the input control, which acts like the "volume" control on a non-MV amp.

IOW, a Plexi -- as modeled in the Axe -- is not cranked when the master volume knob is on 10, but the input knob is on 1. This would result in a clean, non-distorted, non-cranked sound.

I read it as him setting the amp he was playing to 10, which would denote a non mv amp being set to the maximum. I could absolutely be wrong but that was my line of thinking anyway

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I mean 10 as in the max setting on the Axe Fx, not 10 oclock.



The original post was about amps sounding the same. It doesn't matter what cab you use, real or modeled, or what it does the the sound or what other tools you might use to change EQ. All that has nothing to do with that an "amp" does to the sound. (As evidenced by the video he posted). Also, "dialing" in a sound is very different than cranking an amp. If I were dialing in a sound I would make sure I did not crank the amp because that can dampen dynamics.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/3chRecto.pdf
Page 11 (labeled page 7) - first paragraph

And with our habits of dialing what we hear they do. And as the OP said groups if amps sound the same. Would you be happier if he said similar?
What about the Recto manual I played a T-Verb from when it came out in 93 to 2008. The difference in tubes was more of a feel thing and hair in the mid range. Very much something that is eq dependant.
What does an amp do to the sou D it amplifies it. Overdrive is a side EFFECT.

 

[ptgold]

Problem is not that the sound the same. Problem is that you will always sound like you lol. Truth is for me the biggest thing is feel. I few years back I was hooked playing EBMM guitar. There is a bridge pickup they use in a few models that I really did not care for. So I swapped it out. Everyone on their forum thought I was crazy. I made a brief before an after clip and they all said it sounded almost identical and after a while they could tell no difference. I have to agree. If I listen blindly I could not really tell the difference either. Then difference was in feel. They felt night and day. Feel doesn't come across in a recording though.

Same thing with the FAS. I have heard recordings of me using either of my main two patches with any of my 4 guitar and it always sounded just like me. I can't help it. My two main patches amp wise are real different by the way. Triptik modern or AC20 DLX

So much this!!! And great analogy about the wine also.

Two amps may sound the same to a listener but it wont be until you play it that you can FEEL the difference. To me its all about how the amp feels when youre playing. Is it smooth? Harsh? in between? How does it react? Does it have give? Is it quick and hard? Or slow and squishy? Thats what I love about the AXE. These things are all evident when I play different models.