A Crazy Question for the 'power users'...

Radley

Experienced
Is it possible to accomplish the following using an AFX II and an original MFC-101? The Scenario: The MFC is set to 15 preset per bank mode and the AFX has 15 EG presets (bank 1) and 15 AG presets (bank 2). Can I program my main MFC volume pedal so that 50% (middle pos.) is 0 level for all patches, and the upper 50% controls the level of the EG patches and the lower 50% inversely controls the AG patch levels? The tricky part: I would also need for the two banks to be automatically switched according to the pedal position (upper 50% selects bank 1, lower 50% selects bank 2).

If this can be done, it would save me some precious time during our shows, and also make things more failsafe (than when I'm manually changing banks with the Up/Down switches - mistakes happen when I'm in a rush!) It would basically be like having 30 presets instantly available.

Is there hope?

Thanks in advance for any input you may have...
 
You can crossfade between two amps or cabs in one preset, but not between two different presets. Only way to do that is to buy a second Axe II, have both presets going at the same time, and crossfade their outputs.
 
If this can be done, it would save me some precious time during our shows, and also make things more failsafe (than when I'm manually changing banks with the Up/Down switches - mistakes happen when I'm in a rush!) It would basically be like having 30 presets instantly available.

Is there hope?

Yes there is hope, but it may take a little bit different approach to accomplish what you want.

As mr_fender alluded to you could have 2 Amps and 2 Cabs setup with X/Y presets in a single PRESET then transition within SCENES to seamlessly shift. This way you get 4 "presets" setup as 4-5 scenes. You could dedicate Scene 5 on ALL of your presets as "Y" parameters with levels dropped by a percentage for your acoustic. Does that make sense? Each preset you have set it up for Scene 5 as lower volume.

I don't think you can transition banks or presets with a modifier. Maybe I'm not understanding the entire goal of what you're seeking.
 
Using 'midi-speak', I guess the key to it all would be finding a way to make volume values over 64 to select bank 1, and values less than 63 select bank 2.
 
Why not just create a preset for each song. Use scenes within each preset. The only way i can see this not working is if you actually needed more than 8 rig configurations in a single song.
 
Ten patches with five scenes each, then you have basically 50 patches available without changing banks and seamless switching.
 
Radley: unfortunately, no. But it's a cool idea. A more generic MIDI controller like something from FAMC or Gordius or RJM might be able to send PC values based on the position of a continuous controller but even then...I'm doubtful.

I get what you're trying to do though. I think it'd be really hard, nearly impossible, to control with a rocking controller though -- finding that mid-point where you switch from acoustic to electric would be exceptionally hard with out a rocking pedal that has some sort of detent at the midpoint to offer resistance.

Maybe, let's step back a bit, and dig in to the problem though instead of going straight for a solution? Is it fast switch from electric to acoustic sounds you're after? Is it blending from electric to acoustic sounds seamlessly? Reading your post I don't think it's either of those, but maybe I'm wrong. I get the feeling it's just *reliable* switching from your acoustic to electric bank of patches and back that you're after, right?

Have you considered setting the bank limit on the MFC and disabling wrap around? That means pressing the bank UP button takes you to your acoustic patches and pressing it again wouldn't do anything. And the bank down button takes you to your electric patches and pressing it again wouldn't do anything.

Edit: also, your PM inbox is full. :D
 
Thanks to all for your input/suggestions ~ The driving motive behind my idea is to make lightning fast patch changes without any extra button pushes to slow me down (scene selection, bank change, X/Y, etc). In other words, instant access.
 
I'm with the 'scenes' folks.

But I would have to ask how much faster using a pedal would be over touching a button for scenes?

I wonder if 2 MFC's would be able to do this...

R
 
Thanks to all for your input/suggestions ~ The driving motive behind my idea is to make lightning fast patch changes without any extra button pushes to slow me down (scene selection, bank change, X/Y, etc). In other words, instant access.

Scenes, my man, scenes! Assuming you can run your acoustic and electric chains in one patch, you'll have the fastest access in the West to what you need when you need it.
 
Thanks a lot guys, but my acoustic and electric patches are already using upwards of 90% of the available processing to achieve the sounds I'm after - there's no way I could try to split these in half (unless I'm unaware of some major effects/processor-sharing techniques). Sadly, I may have to go back to using one of my Boss units for electric sounds (I know how to make them sound quite nice)... at least this way my split volume pedal idea would work and I would never again have to deal with bank changes, scene selection, X/Y etc.

Having said this I am still open to any creative ideas to attain my goals using only the AFX and MFC ;)
 
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Would anyone care to show me an example of an efficient dual-patch for both stereo electric and stereo piezo acoustic channels? (keep in mind that the piezo acoustic side must have it's own Stereo Cab with acoustic IRs for authentic tone)
 
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How fast do you switch? Can you handle a short dropout? Or does it need to be seamless?
 
Radley: unfortunately, no. But it's a cool idea. A more generic MIDI controller like something from FAMC or Gordius or RJM might be able to send PC values based on the position of a continuous controller but even then...I'm doubtful.

I get what you're trying to do though. I think it'd be really hard, nearly impossible, to control with a rocking controller though -- finding that mid-point where you switch from acoustic to electric would be exceptionally hard with out a rocking pedal that has some sort of detent at the midpoint to offer resistance.

Maybe, let's step back a bit, and dig in to the problem though instead of going straight for a solution? Is it fast switch from electric to acoustic sounds you're after? Is it blending from electric to acoustic sounds seamlessly? Reading your post I don't think it's either of those, but maybe I'm wrong. I get the feeling it's just *reliable* switching from your acoustic to electric bank of patches and back that you're after, right?

Have you considered setting the bank limit on the MFC and disabling wrap around? That means pressing the bank UP button takes you to your acoustic patches and pressing it again wouldn't do anything. And the bank down button takes you to your electric patches and pressing it again wouldn't do anything.

Edit: also, your PM inbox is full. :D


Iaresee ~ Thanks for your help. I am going for a failsafe (and fast) way to switch between AG and EG patches without using bank (or any other extra) switching. The volume pedal is always used by me so it would not be an extra step ~ levels are somewhat different every night, so I rely on my ear and my foot...

Iaresee ~ It doesn't have to be seamless... it just has to be easy & reliable.

The key is that I would be using the Volume pedal to adjust the volumes of both sets of patches, *AND* using it to automatically switch banks by it's (positive or negative) position.
 
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1..Do you ever need the AG and EG "patches" at the same time? ........If not.

You could setup your presets to be song specific.(place them in order in "song/set mode" - bank size set to "0", then just use the "Bank up" and "Bank down" buttons to cycle through the presets(songs) while in "set" mode).

In presets that need both AG and EG processing (but not at the same time), use scenes #1 thru #4 for EG, and scenes #5 thru #8 for AG (if you need that many). Try sharing as many blocks as you can. All "shared" blocks use "X" for EG and "Y" for AG. Only 1 stereo cab block, 1 reverb block, 1 delay block, etc.......... But using scenes to switch all "shared" blocks from "X" (EG) to "Y" (AG). Still keeping 2 expression pedals to control the 2 signal chains independently.

Without actually seeing the presets, it's difficult to come up with solutions, but there are lots of possibilities with the tools in these "Fractal" boxes.
 
I don't think this can be done.

There's no command for MFC Bank Select.
So you'd have to find out the SysEx string for that.

Also, the MFC doesn't let you send SysEx through an expression pedal's position.
You'd need something like a Gordius Little Giant for that. But the Gordius, IIRC, only lets you do that at heel and toe-down positions, not at around 50%.

I also doubt that it'd work at all in hectic live situations. Because even when the pedal would change banks, you'd still have to change from the pedal to the switches to select the desired preset.

Radley, have you considered using Alternate Presets on the MFC? With alternate presets you can stay in the same bank and access -for example- your EG presets by stomping a switch once, and your AG presets by stomping a switch twice.
 
Thanks to All!

Thanks Yek ~ I hadn't considered the alternate preset feature.... I see potential here! :) Perhaps I should explain a bit more on how I've been doing things: My EG goes into AFX via the front input and my AG feed goes into the loop return on the back ~ this is how the AFX selects which guitar is 'live' and which is muted. (I am not opposed to using a midi loop selector so all signals go into the front input if this makes things easier internally, but it does add another part that could fail) :(

A somewhat unrelated question: My remaining 2 switches control OD and Delay status globally ~ is there a way to assign them per preset for more functionality?

Thanks for all of the helpful responses people ~ It is truly appreciated! :)
 
First:

A somewhat unrelated question: My remaining 2 switches control OD and Delay status globally ~ is there a way to assign them per preset for more functionality?

Yes! Set them up as external controller switches and then assign them freely, per patch, to functions. As external controller IAs they can be assigned to more than one thing (even more than one thing at a time).

Now back to your larger problem. There are many ways to, ahem, skin this cat so to speak. Yek mentioned one. I'll lay out a few options as they occurred to me while I was thinking about your request.

Option #1: Keep your patch setup, exploit bank limits and wrapping on the MFC to make it easy to change EG -> AG and back with one button

I already talked about limiting the banks on the MFC and I had an expansion on that thought that you may wish to consider. Let's assume that you have your 15 EG and AG patches set up so that P1 = EG and P16 = AG for the same song. That is, you have things organized in two patch "pairs", spaced 15 patches apart.

If you're playing a song on EG P2 and you need to switch to AG mid-song you'd be switching to AG P17.

Following?

With this organization, you can setup the MFC to move from the EG to the AG to the EG to the AG patch for any pair with one button press. On the MFC you're going to set:

  • Bank Size -> 15
  • Bank Style -> CURRENT
  • Bank/Song Limit -> 002
  • Bank/Song Wrap -> ON (this is different than what I said earlier)

With this setup, the BANK UP and DOWN buttons both do the same thing: they take you from the current patch to the corresponding AG or EG patch. If you're on the EG patch and you press either BANK UP or DOWN you end up on the paired AG patch. If you're on the AG patch and you press either BANK UP OR DOWN you end up on the corresponding EG patch.

This approach has the advantage of allowing you to use the full power of the unit for AG and EG patches, no compromises. It also lets you quick-hit one switch, BANK DOWN, to do all EG -> AG -> EG -> AG toggling. The disadvantages are in the limits to the patches you can use (17 tops, but 15 if you want to keep two switches as IA switches without going to external switches for IAs). And because these are patch changes there can be a very short delay on change (but you said that's not a problem for you, so that's cool).

Option #2: Switch your setup to scenes

This is the more involved option. You're going to have to re-work your patches. You've already stated that you're pushing the CPU limits of your AG and EG patches so your best approach is using the X/Y states of your blocks and, where blocks differ for AG and EG signal changes, switch the X/Y state on scene change.

This approach requires you dedicate an IA on the MFC to selecting the scene in the patch. Scene 1 will always be your EG scene, scene 2 will always be your acoustic scene. You can use the mixer block and scene controllers to route the signals in the scenes when you need a slightly different signal path. Here's an example.

Scene 1: Electric Guitar

The signal from the front input is routed through some pre effects, the AMP + CAB block and then on to some post effects. The signal from the rear input is muted.

Scene 2: Acoustic Guitar

The signal from the front input is muted. The signal from the rear input is routed though some of the same blocks, but those blocks have been flipped to their Y state and use alternate settings. Then there's a slightly different post effect signal chain that's selected by the MIX block having it's mixer settings flipped by the scene controller assigned to the values.

Edit: have to go watch the kids for a while. When I get a second I'll post an example patch for you that shows what I'm talking about with scenes and routing.

There are more ways than these two to go about accomplishing what you want to do, but these two feel like the most viable to me right now.
 
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