Wish 8 channel volume block

[Dave Merrill]

Like a lot of folks, I often put one or two drive blocks in front of the amp(s).
It's common that I'll like the tone and feel when drive output level is up, hitting the amp hard, which can make that scene louder than others.
I often compensate for that with a (null) filter block or a volume block after the amp.
(That works better than scene volume, because scene volume changes the level of verb and delay trails.)

What I really want is a simple volume block with 8 channels, so there's a channel (i.e., a separate level control) available for each scene.
Another way to look at this is that it's scene volume, but implemented as a block, so you can put it wherever you want in the grid.
It should be full stereo, so if you had two amp blocks panned around, their positions would be preserved.

Yes, you could do this with two volume blocks, turning on one or the other, which I do now, same as I do for drives.
But this is simpler and more straightforward, purpose built.

You could also do this with a scene controller modifying amp output level.
However, I find that awkward, since the controller values needed aren't as obvious.
I'd much rather have a simple level control for some stated amount of gain increase or decrease.

What do folks think?
Useful?

 

[jefferski]

+1

 

[Moke]

Try attaching a Scene Controller (you have 4) to the 'Volume' parameter in the volume block. Now you have 8 possible volume levels. And the bonus of some volume 'Damping' (morphing) between scenes when wanted.

But an 8 channel Volume (or Scene Level) block would be cool.

 

[Dave Merrill]

Try attaching a Scene Controller to the 'Volume' parameter in the volume block. Now you have 8 possible volume levels. And the bonus of some volume 'Damping' (morphing) between scenes when wanted.

Yeah, I mentioned that possibility.
I just find setting a volume control calibrated in db plus or minus much more intuitive than fishing for controller values and range and curve etc.

 

[Moke]

Set the Min and Max values in the Edit Modifier window to something that scales easily to the 0-100% Scene Controller knobs. Like '-5 dB' and '+5 dB' (10dB total).

 

[Dave Merrill]

Set the Min and Max values in the Edit Modifier window to something that scales easily to the 0-100% Scene Controller knobs. Like '-5 dB' and '+5 dB' (10dB total).

Hmmm, seems like a good idea, I'll check it out, need to get more familiar with the whole scene controllers thing.

 

[Dave Merrill]

@Moke thanks for encouraging me towards scene controllers. I reworked one preset this this way today, and it was simple and effective, almost like what this feature was designed for

I didn't change the controller range, left it wide, so the scene controllers could just match the prior amp output levels for each scene. Simple and easy.

 

[Moke]

@Moke thanks for encouraging me towards scene controllers. I reworked one preset this this way today, and it was simple and effective, almost like what this feature was designed for

I didn't change the controller range, left it wide, so the scene controllers could just match the prior amp output levels for each scene. Simple and easy.

That's awesome!

You can use one Scene Controller to alter levels, and another to alter gain/drive. Then just go to the 'Scene Controller 1&2' (or 3&4) tab in the 'Controllers' menu of the editor to make 'Gain' and 'Level' adjustments to all 8 scenes in one page.

Adding some 'Damping' (around 150 ms) on both controllers in the Edit Modifier window makes for some super smooth morphing between scenes.

 

[Dave Merrill]

That's awesome!

You can use one Scene Controller to alter levels, and another to alter gain/drive. Then just go to the 'Scene Controller 1&2' (or 3&4) tab in the 'Controllers' menu of the editor to make 'Gain' and 'Level' adjustments to all 8 scenes in one page.

Adding some 'Damping' (around 150 ms) on both controllers in the Edit Modifier window makes for some super smooth morphing between scenes.

Understood. However, if I'm just using the amp for most scenes (no drives), I'll often want other changes besides level, so by that time it's easier to just change amp channels per scene, and set the controls directly in the amp.

This strategy is great for exactly the preset I was working on, one amp channel with 4 different drives.

Would be nice to be able to name scene controllers, and to show those names on the scene controllers page. (And also scene names ideally, which we already have.)

 

[Dave Merrill]

So I ran into a kind of a gotcha: When you swap or copy scenes, scene controllers don't come with.
Ugh.
That's potentially a bunch of writing down and shuffling by hand.

Is this considered a bug?
Are scene controllers new enough that this is maybe an unfinished corner of the functionality that will get caught up relatively soon?

 

[unix-guy]

So I ran into a kind of a gotcha: When you swap or copy scenes, scene controllers don't come with.
Ugh.
That's potentially a bunch of writing down and shuffling by hand.

Is this considered a bug?
Are scene controllers new enough that this is maybe an unfinished corner of the functionality that will get caught up relatively soon?

It's a grey area...

A scene is only the on/off state and channel selection of each block.

Controllers are not per-scene, although Scene Controllers are related to scenes.

I am pretty sure @Moke actually has a wish for for including them when copying.

 

[Dave Merrill]

It's a grey area...

A scene is only the on/off state and channel selection of each block.

Controllers are not per-scene, although Scene Controllers are related to scenes.

I am pretty sure @Moke actually has a wish for for including them when copying.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but clearly a scene is NOT "only the on/off state and channel selection of each block".
It also includes the scene's scene controller values, because they clearly affect the settings for whatever they're hooked up to.

Words aside, practically speaking, if they DON'T come with, the scene is corrupted -- whatever scene controllers control in this preset, will be wrong.

I looked for a Moke wish for this in the Axe III Wish forum, couldn't find it.
@Moke, this ring any bells with you?
If not, I'll post one when I get a chance, not until after work Monday at the earliest.

 

[unix-guy]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but clearly a scene is NOT "only the on/off state and channel selection of each block".
It also includes the scene's scene controller values, because they clearly affect the settings for whatever they're hooked up to.

Kinda why I said it's a grey area...

I'll leave it to Fractal to comment on whether or not Scene Controllers are part of a scene...

 

[Moke]

Scene Controller values are transferring when copying and swapping for me. They weren't initially, but were added.

It's the Scene Level 'Sliders' in the Output blocks that don't carry over. My 'Bug Report' thread was marked as 'Not a Bug'? So I didn't bother with a 'Wish' thread. They just usually turn into arguments, and I'm just not up for it anymore.

How can the 8 Scene Level Sliders, designed for exactly that purpose, not be considered part of a scene?

 

[Dave Merrill]

Scene Controller values are transferring when copying and swapping for me. They weren't initially, but were added.

It's the Scene Level 'Sliders' in the Output blocks that don't carry over. My 'Bug Report' thread was marked as 'Not a Bug'? So I didn't bother with a 'Wish' thread. They just usually turn into arguments, and I'm just not up for it anymore.

How can the 8 Scene Level Sliders, designed for exactly that purpose, not be considered part of a scene?

I'm pretty much certain I swapped scenes, and the scene controller values didn't get swapped.
I actually want to do the swap I tried (it wasn't just a test), and I put the scenes back when it didn't work, which is why I'm pretty sure it didn't.

I was doing this on the unit, not in the editor.
Does anyone remember trying that?
I'll check again when I have a chance, and also try in the editor, but on-unit I doubt it's working.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I'm pretty much certain I swapped scenes, and the scene controller values didn't get swapped.
I actually want to do the swap I tried (it wasn't just a test), and I put the scenes back when it didn't work, which is why I'm pretty sure it didn't.

I was doing this on the unit, not in the editor.
Does anyone remember trying that?
I'll check again when I have a chance, and also try in the editor, but on-unit I doubt it's working.

I retested, definitely broken on-unit, working correctly in Axe-Edit.
I'll file a wishlist item for it when I get a chance.
Not tonight, up at 5am for a server reconfig thing, yay

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

That's awesome!

You can use one Scene Controller to alter levels, and another to alter gain/drive. Then just go to the 'Scene Controller 1&2' (or 3&4) tab in the 'Controllers' menu of the editor to make 'Gain' and 'Level' adjustments to all 8 scenes in one page.

Adding some 'Damping' (around 150 ms) on both controllers in the Edit Modifier window makes for some super smooth morphing between scenes.

As little as 70ms is still pretty smooth, but quicker. I use times in the 150ms range for release smoothing on gates or envelope followers, generally, when I want it to follow level closely but not bounce much as notes decay. Any higher is for when I want some 'hang time' on a parameter releasing. In some cases, being able to set attack or release time with tempo subdivisions would be useful....

 

[Dave Merrill]

It's been a minute, but today I realized something I should have noticed long ago.

We don't need to wish for this, the Multiplexer block IS an 8 channel volume control!
Its main purpose is that it can select from eight six different inputs (really 8 6 different matrix rows), but each of the EIGHT SIX channels has its own independent volume too.
Most blocks don't have 8 separate channels, but this one does.

You only get two multiplexers (on the Axe III, don't know about FM9 or FM3), and it doesn't solve everything, but it's enough to do some of the things I want this for, mainly a single amp channel with a bunch of different drives that may goose volume enough to want to compensate.

---

Bleh, my apologies folks, delusion on my part.
The multiplexer block has only SIX channels, not eight.
Not sure what was going on in my brain earlier.
As you were.

And just for the record, it IS too bad we don't have an 8 channel volume block.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It's been a minute, but today I realized something I should have noticed long ago.

We don't need to wish for this, the Multiplexer block IS an 8 channel volume control!
Its main purpose is that it can select from 8 different inputs (really 8 different matrix rows), but each of the EIGHT channels has its own independent volume too.
Most blocks don't have 8 separate channels, but this one does.

You only get two multiplexers (on the Axe III, don't know about FM9 or FM3), and it doesn't solve everything, but it's enough to do some of the things I want this for, mainly a single amp channel with a bunch of different drives that may goose volume enough to want to compensate.

I was thinking the same thing, using the Multiplexer, but according to the Blocks Guide it’s only 6 channels, 4 on the FM3. Maybe the guide needs to be updated, or we need glasses. I’m away from the modelers so I can’t double check.

I think having 8 channels is a useful request for this sort of stuff.

All units have 2 MUX blocks.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I was thinking the same thing, using the Multiplexer, but according to the Blocks Guide it’s only 6 channels, 4 on the FM3. Maybe the guide needs to be updated, or we need glasses. I’m away from the modelers so I can’t double check.

I think having 8 channels is a useful request for this sort of stuff.

All units have 2 MUX blocks.

Maybe that 6-channel doc is why I never caught this before, but I pulled one up to do something else, saw that, and rejoiced!

OTOH, the other thing I wanted to do actually needs a DEMUX, which we don't have, unfortunately.
Maybe some day.