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'65 Bassman: another Plexi

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Discussion' started by yek, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Mark's Tone

    Mark's Tone
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    The best tones I ever got out of my vintage Marshall was the last two hours before the groove tubes crapped out. Sweet flutie tones. Get that into code, and we are mnoving foreward huge.

    Maybe it's already in there?
     
  2. Mark's Tone

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    I have been moving factory preset #1 to the back of the line since I got the axfx. :shock
     
  3. PacoCasanovas

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    tweak "triode hardness" ;)
     
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  4. javajunkie

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    Doesn't 1965 AB165 circuit uses a 12ax7?

    Bassman « fenderguru.com. Fender amps, mods, modifications, vintage, maintenance, tubes, speakers, schematics, blackface, silverface, jens mosbergvik.

     
  5. FractalAudio

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    Yes, the AB165 uses 7025 preamp tubes (which are relabeled 12AX7). The phase inverter, however, is a 12AT7.

    None of this is relevant though. The secret to the AB165 is the summing stage. It uses a inverting summing amp to sum the Normal and Bass inputs. This stage clips, because of all the local negative feedback, quite hard.
     
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  6. jyflorida

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    I've been waiting all day to try this. WOW! Simply killer tone!! I definitely WILL find a reason to use this patch over the weekend! Thank you Yek!
     
  7. #27 LVC, Sep 5, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
    LVC

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    Right it has the 12AX7 but I was taking specifically about the Bassman 5F6-A circuit which is what Marshall lifted from Fender.

    He then swapped a 12AY7 for a 12Ax7 in the Bassman 5F6-A Circuit for more gain and that amp essentially became the JTM45

    To put the tube changes in perspective here are Preamp tube gain factors

    12AX7 - gain of 100
    12AT7 - gain of 60
    2AY7 - gain of 45
    12AU7 - gain of 19


    Remember the old game -- "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon".... same thing with Fender ... "6 degrees of Fender"

    All things lead back to Fender! .... *


    *and yes the tube book
     
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  8. javajunkie

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    I was speaking to this:



    "To get it authentic in the Axe -- the Bassman sims would need to be modeled with a 12ax7 tube which actually would be cool for some of the other tweed amps as well (alternative tube modeling to give you different inherent headroom and feel)."










     
  9. LVC

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    Yes it would have to.

    65 Bassman is not the correct circuit for what I was talking about -- the 59 Bassman is (5F6-A)!

    A period correct tube layout in a 59 Bassman should have a 12AY7 preamp tube (V1). To give it a more Marshall gain - you would need another sim of the 59 but this time with a 12ax7 tube in V1. Then you would select the proper cab/speakers to go with the new gain structure.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    sorry for the confusion --- I get excited when it comes to old Fenders!
     
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  10. javajunkie

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    Yep, I know that, my only point was that when you said the bassman sims should have 12ax7s, one of them does. Specifically the one being discussed in the first post of this thread.
     
  11. PacoCasanovas

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    as a summing stage, it's a welcome effect - normally I would cut out the resistor due of a gain bump!

    AB165 has way too much negative feedback IMO, even the power amp circuit itself had feedback resistors (I'm not talking about the normal global inverse feedback). Fender did a lot of work to convert this in a real bass amplifier, but as a guitar amplifier, cut out these 220k feedback resistors in the power amp section.
    Make sure you don't miss the balanced PI - this is also a thing you don't want in your guitar amp.....

    I love those circuits, they give you opportunities to tweak ;) - later silverface amps I love the most, these were most screwed circuits, with a little bit of love, you can make them shine again! :encouragement:
     
  12. #32 tempus fugit, Sep 6, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
    tempus fugit

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    i tried with the 4x12 basket g12h30 rw and found that quite inspiring
    edit: praise odin! i stuck a fuzz in front. pretty sure my axe fx ii became molten
     
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  13. theblogjammers

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    I love the bassman and learning more about it--thanks Cliff.

     
  14. theblogjammers

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    Ha! Me too. Fun stuff.

     
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  15. solo-act

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    Look for the the "exploding bassman" factory preset (or whatever it's called) send it into a 1x12 tweed mix and dial to taste. That's my PUSA preset. Raw, nasty, and works great for the drop D on that song. Played it at last night's gig and got out in front of the PA. Fun stuff.
     
  16. PJM

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    Just found this thread last night . SG straight out of its case ! . Thanks Yek . Could not quite get the sound i wanted from the 65 Bassman model though . What else should I try ?
     
  17. lqdsnddist

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    Timely bumping of this thread, I've been thinking of selling my Bassman, as I nearly always just use the Axe, but darn if the Bassman doesn't still sound a bit better to my ears. Only amp I'll actually say that about compared to the Axe.

    I'll run my Bassman (which has a PPIMV added via the second cab jack on the back) into a loadbox, and then run that line single into the Axe, using the Axe just for the IR's, and try as I might, I can't get the dial in the tone. Tried Bassman models, tried Marshall models, and everything else. They all sound really good, but the Bassman tone is just "right"

    This is in regards to the Bass channel, my AA864 clean channel has been left stock, and the Axe actually does great Fender cleans. The bass channel has the added stage of gain, and then the deep switch has been modded to kick in a bit of a mid boost. Crank the volume to about 8, treble at 9, bass at 6, and play it through my LP with hot P90's and its pure Mike Ness/Social D tone

    Music starts at the 2:15 point

    Social Distortion - Live in Orange County 2003 - YouTube
     
  18. Funeral

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    Is that guy INTENTIONALLY not pronouncing his words? And singing out of tune?
    Seem about as lame as selling out...right?


    Anyways, back to the OP.
    I thought that this was common knowledge. For years Ive seen guys use Bassman amps for rock tones.
     
  19. lqdsnddist

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    Just how Mike Ness sings. (long live of drugs and alcohol and rock n' roll lifestyle) Awesome live guitar tone though (IMO) and great overall band with some really good songs.

    If you want someone who enunciates every word and sings in tune there are plenty of Michael Buble types or American Idol pretty boys.
     
  20. Funeral

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    No thanks to all of the above. And why is it that a guy who had a "long life of drugs and alcohol" with a guitar is a musician but take away the guitar and you and I would call that same guy a looser junky?
    Also, I had to google Michael Buble, had no idea who he is. You referenced the guy and even spell his name correctly. Fan?
     

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