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'65 Bassman: another Plexi

Mark's Tone

Power User
Thats what im saying on the other thread!!. Choice of Preamp Tube simulations is the next step for realism!!!
The best tones I ever got out of my vintage Marshall was the last two hours before the groove tubes crapped out. Sweet flutie tones. Get that into code, and we are mnoving foreward huge.

Maybe it's already in there?
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Jim Marshall basically lifted the Fender Bassman 5F6-A Circuit to create JTM45. I do not think he modified the preamp in any way. All I do know is that he swapped a 12AY7 for a 12Ax7 for more gain ... and viola the Marshall was born. So if you have a Bassman just put in a 12AX7 preamp tube, crank it up and presto instant classic Marshall (only better IMO :mrgreen)

To get it authentic in the Axe -- the Bassman sims would need to be modeled with a 12ax7 tube which actually would be cool for some of the other tweed amps as well (alternative tube modeling to give you different inherent headroom and feel).

On another note -- it would be great to know what tubes where used in the amp when it was modeled.

Personally I always favored Bassman amps over Marshalls for that classic rock tone.

All roads always lead back to fender ....

Just say'n!
Doesn't 1965 AB165 circuit uses a 12ax7?

Bassman « fenderguru.com. Fender amps, mods, modifications, vintage, maintenance, tubes, speakers, schematics, blackface, silverface, jens mosbergvik.

 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Yes, the AB165 uses 7025 preamp tubes (which are relabeled 12AX7). The phase inverter, however, is a 12AT7.

None of this is relevant though. The secret to the AB165 is the summing stage. It uses a inverting summing amp to sum the Normal and Bass inputs. This stage clips, because of all the local negative feedback, quite hard.
 

jyflorida

Experienced
I've been waiting all day to try this. WOW! Simply killer tone!! I definitely WILL find a reason to use this patch over the weekend! Thank you Yek!
 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
Right it has the 12AX7 but I was taking specifically about the Bassman 5F6-A circuit which is what Marshall lifted from Fender.

He then swapped a 12AY7 for a 12Ax7 in the Bassman 5F6-A Circuit for more gain and that amp essentially became the JTM45

To put the tube changes in perspective here are Preamp tube gain factors

12AX7 - gain of 100
12AT7 - gain of 60
2AY7 - gain of 45
12AU7 - gain of 19


Remember the old game -- "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon".... same thing with Fender ... "6 degrees of Fender"

All things lead back to Fender! .... *


*and yes the tube book
 
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javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
I was speaking to this:



"To get it authentic in the Axe -- the Bassman sims would need to be modeled with a 12ax7 tube which actually would be cool for some of the other tweed amps as well (alternative tube modeling to give you different inherent headroom and feel)."










Right it has the 12AX7 but I was taking specifically about the Bassman 5F6-A circuit which is what Marshall lifted from Fender.

He then swapped a 12AY7 for a 12Ax7 in the Bassman 5F6-A Circuit for more gain and that amp essentially became the JTM45

To put the tube changes in perspective here are Preamp tube gain factors

12AX7 - gain of 100
12AT7 - gain of 60
2AY7 - gain of 45
12AU7 - gain of 19


Remember the old game -- "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon".... same thing with Fender ... "6 degrees of Fender"

All things lead back to Fender! .... *


*and yes the tube book
 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
I was speaking to this:



"To get it authentic in the Axe -- the Bassman sims would need to be modeled with a 12ax7 tube which actually would be cool for some of the other tweed amps as well (alternative tube modeling to give you different inherent headroom and feel)."
Yes it would have to.

65 Bassman is not the correct circuit for what I was talking about -- the 59 Bassman is (5F6-A)!

A period correct tube layout in a 59 Bassman should have a 12AY7 preamp tube (V1). To give it a more Marshall gain - you would need another sim of the 59 but this time with a 12ax7 tube in V1. Then you would select the proper cab/speakers to go with the new gain structure.







sorry for the confusion --- I get excited when it comes to old Fenders!
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Yep, I know that, my only point was that when you said the bassman sims should have 12ax7s, one of them does. Specifically the one being discussed in the first post of this thread.
 

PacoCasanovas

Fractal Fanatic
Yes, the AB165 uses 7025 preamp tubes (which are relabeled 12AX7). The phase inverter, however, is a 12AT7.

None of this is relevant though. The secret to the AB165 is the summing stage. It uses a inverting summing amp to sum the Normal and Bass inputs. This stage clips, because of all the local negative feedback, quite hard.
as a summing stage, it's a welcome effect - normally I would cut out the resistor due of a gain bump!

AB165 has way too much negative feedback IMO, even the power amp circuit itself had feedback resistors (I'm not talking about the normal global inverse feedback). Fender did a lot of work to convert this in a real bass amplifier, but as a guitar amplifier, cut out these 220k feedback resistors in the power amp section.
Make sure you don't miss the balanced PI - this is also a thing you don't want in your guitar amp.....

I love those circuits, they give you opportunities to tweak ;) - later silverface amps I love the most, these were most screwed circuits, with a little bit of love, you can make them shine again! :encouragement:
 

tempus fugit

Inspired
I was watching some Youtube videos of amps, when I came across this video, made by Tyler Grund ("Gamedojo" on this forum).

It's a Fender, not a Marshall. :shock
I repeat: it's a Fender, not a Marshall. A '65 Fender Bassman, cranked to 10.

Easily replicated in the Axe-Fx, using the 65 Bassguy model, Input Drive at 10, Treble at 10, Bass maybe turned down a bit, and using the 4x12 Basketweave Green or TV cab.

Hello Angus.
i tried with the 4x12 basket g12h30 rw and found that quite inspiring
edit: praise odin! i stuck a fuzz in front. pretty sure my axe fx ii became molten
 
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theblogjammers

Experienced
I love the bassman and learning more about it--thanks Cliff.

Yes, the AB165 uses 7025 preamp tubes (which are relabeled 12AX7). The phase inverter, however, is a 12AT7.

None of this is relevant though. The secret to the AB165 is the summing stage. It uses a inverting summing amp to sum the Normal and Bass inputs. This stage clips, because of all the local negative feedback, quite hard.
 

solo-act

Fractal Fanatic
I use a cranked bassman for Presidents of the United States of America's "She's Lump"
LOVE that tune and that guitar sound!
Look for the the "exploding bassman" factory preset (or whatever it's called) send it into a 1x12 tweed mix and dial to taste. That's my PUSA preset. Raw, nasty, and works great for the drop D on that song. Played it at last night's gig and got out in front of the PA. Fun stuff.
 

PJM

Member
I was watching some Youtube videos of amps, when I came across this video, made by Tyler Grund ("Gamedojo" on this forum).

It's a Fender, not a Marshall. :shock
I repeat: it's a Fender, not a Marshall. A '65 Fender Bassman, cranked to 10.

Easily replicated in the Axe-Fx, using the 65 Bassguy model, Input Drive at 10, Treble at 10, Bass maybe turned down a bit, and using the 4x12 Basketweave Green or TV cab.

Hello Angus.

Just found this thread last night . SG straight out of its case ! . Thanks Yek . Could not quite get the sound i wanted from the 65 Bassman model though . What else should I try ?
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Timely bumping of this thread, I've been thinking of selling my Bassman, as I nearly always just use the Axe, but darn if the Bassman doesn't still sound a bit better to my ears. Only amp I'll actually say that about compared to the Axe.

I'll run my Bassman (which has a PPIMV added via the second cab jack on the back) into a loadbox, and then run that line single into the Axe, using the Axe just for the IR's, and try as I might, I can't get the dial in the tone. Tried Bassman models, tried Marshall models, and everything else. They all sound really good, but the Bassman tone is just "right"

This is in regards to the Bass channel, my AA864 clean channel has been left stock, and the Axe actually does great Fender cleans. The bass channel has the added stage of gain, and then the deep switch has been modded to kick in a bit of a mid boost. Crank the volume to about 8, treble at 9, bass at 6, and play it through my LP with hot P90's and its pure Mike Ness/Social D tone

Music starts at the 2:15 point

Social Distortion - Live in Orange County 2003 - YouTube
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Is that guy INTENTIONALLY not pronouncing his words? And singing out of tune?
Seem about as lame as selling out...right?


Anyways, back to the OP.
I thought that this was common knowledge. For years Ive seen guys use Bassman amps for rock tones.

Just how Mike Ness sings. (long live of drugs and alcohol and rock n' roll lifestyle) Awesome live guitar tone though (IMO) and great overall band with some really good songs.

If you want someone who enunciates every word and sings in tune there are plenty of Michael Buble types or American Idol pretty boys.
 

Funeral

Fractal Fanatic
Just how Mike Ness sings. (long live of drugs and alcohol and rock n' roll lifestyle) Awesome live guitar tone though (IMO) and great overall band with some really good songs.

If you want someone who enunciates every word and sings in tune there are plenty of Michael Buble types or American Idol pretty boys.
No thanks to all of the above. And why is it that a guy who had a "long life of drugs and alcohol" with a guitar is a musician but take away the guitar and you and I would call that same guy a looser junky?
Also, I had to google Michael Buble, had no idea who he is. You referenced the guy and even spell his name correctly. Fan?
 
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