5150 build.

That picture I put up didn't look like it does in person so I will try again;IMG_1882.jpg
That's a bit better.
The tape damage from thousands of pieces of gaff tape are near impossible to get exact . You have to go as close as you can and concentrate on the overall look of the original than every individual mark. I would love to do this properly with the original guitar or full size hi res images to work from so I could do every mark right.
 
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Andy - how do you ‘relic’? What tools and methods? I’m intrigued as it’s supposed to look natural and random yet it’s entirely created with purpose. looks good incidentally - it’d fool me 🙂

cheers, Gilesy
I really depends on what you'r after. The starting point is if you are copying something the paint has to be the same or it won't look right what ever you do. This and the usual vintage nitro thing are totally different. This is as hard is it ever gets because you are not just going for generic believable you need to get close to one particular instrument. The main problem with this is I need full size hi res photos to do it properly and they don't exist of this guitar. No two images worth using from the same time show even half of the information you need.
I can do a vintage nitro relic fender on here sometime soon because I do these quite often.
Oh and for this the main tools are sanding pads, rubbing compound and a bunch of scalpels in different shapes. You would use mostly different stuff for a vintage Fender though. That is far easier.
 
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This is cool to watch. Sorry if it's been discussed before - is finish work and partscasters a side gig or main work?
 
I am having difficulty finding photos of the back from any time around 86/8. I have early ones with the shelf brackets on and very lat shot that are totally wrecked but nothing in the middle .
This is the only one I can find;
IMG_1953.jpg
Not exactly a hi res close up.
This is the whole problem with this guitar as a project.
Then I also have to cut up the perfect straight spaced 5150 sticker set because the original is not square, straight, correctly spaced or even in line. This is very painful to do but this whole guitar is a catalogue of very roughly done things and that makes it very hard to copy well.
 
Here's where we are now;
IMG_1956.jpeg
This photo makes it look a little fake but it looks more real in person (honest .)
The back is my imagination of somewhere in the middle of the information I can find.
FullSizeRender.jpg
I don't want it to be as worn as the photos I can find but with no information here it is . I will amend it if I can find good pictures.
I originally was going to do this body and if I liked it better than the other one rebuild the guitar with this one. I was going to refinish the neck to match this and then sell the other body but I am thinking I should make another guitar and use the vintage hardware on the relic and sell the other guitar because I don't need two. I actually also have a Kramer Focus 1000 from 1984 with a non fine tune Floyd .
 
A side thing for me originally. I am a full time repair tech mainly but I authenticate vintage for insurance and auctions as well . In recent years I see quite a lot of ex rock star stuff too.
This explains a great many things. You've got a fascinating marriage of skills and talents. I never really spent much time learning about 5150. I'm pretty sure it wasn't until I learned a lot more about the original Frankenstein guitar that I realized they were not the same instrument.
 
If anyone has any pictures of the back from the mid to late 80s could you please post them here.
I have done some more and I have made a small alteration to the top horn stripe which was slightly out (not now.)
IMG_1962.jpg
A bit more work to the back;
IMG_1963.jpg
 
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And a bit more to the fuckups on Es's;
IMG_1961.jpg
You can just go on fore ever with these, just a bit more here:tearsofjoy:

Also do you guys think I should use the other neck and refinish it to match this body (then sell the original body) OR build another guitar putting the vintage parts on this relic version (and sell the original?) The issue would be the long wait for a Musikraft neck (15 weeks at the moment.) If I keep working on this for another 15 weeks there will be nothing left. I could put a new 1984 Floyd and Duncan on the first guitar and have a new version as well . The original guitar sounds and plays great but I won't play them both and I have 25 others.
 
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My observations on which body you can use for an accurate 5150 replica are;

1. KNE. Just not the right shape top horn. Flat neck pocket wrong depth and a huge number of small details that are just off. Pickup rout depth wrong too .

2. Butala . Same problems exactly.

3. Dive-bomb . The body is pretty good apart from the pickup rout depth is for a short leg humbucker (convenient but wrong). Their neck is a car crash though. I can go in to details on the neck but start with wrong twelfth fret dot position and go down hill from there.

Now the big two.

4. Musikraft. I don't know if I should include this as it's not available at the moment. But it is an important one so; This only has a couple of tiny issue and that is the shape of the screw support rout under the backplate is just different from an original Pacer , also they cut the body a bit deep in the cavity making the top very thin at this point (unlikely to cause any issues but different.) They also don't get the transition to the neck in the lower cutaway quite right ( I show this earlier in the thread.) They deserve credit for the neck angle pocket cut to the right depth but on mine I had to sand quite a lot to compensate for a poorly done (concave) surface to the ribcage cutaway ( just a mistake on mine I think)
and finally;

5 Chris Locke; This one is sanded to the best finish as it comes and it looks right but it does have two issues that I think should be optional that are incorrect to the original. It has a fender depth flat neck pocket. I think an angled deep one should be an option .Finaly it is routed for a short leg humbucker which again is useful to most people but actually incorrect.

If you were wanting a body to build an accurate replica I would recommend the Chris Lock as the Muskraft is not available. They both have minor issues but are both good.
If you are prepared to modify the body to be totally accurate only the Chris Lock will give you the flexibility. The mods you would need to do are rout the pickup cavity deeper and make an angled neck pocket router jig to lower the neck and give the angle for the Floyd Rose clearance.
I will look in to neck options later.
 
Outstanding work.
Would love to see how you do a Fender style relic (like MJT does)!
 
Finished guitars bring them to lifeView attachment 88610
Vintage replicas by me for players. Both are exact vintage detail in everything possible UNTIL you get to the radius and frets .

These look excellent!!

I have tried quite a bit in the past, and my results always look like garbage (in my opinion). So would love some insight!!
Specifically, your paint checking/cracking looks awesome.....as well as the fret board wear.
 
These look excellent!!

I have tried quite a bit in the past, and my results always look like garbage (in my opinion). So would love some insight!!
Specifically, your paint checking/cracking looks awesome.....as well as the fret board wear.
It's about copying the paint first, you are unlikely to get good results if you weren't involved at least in the paint job.
So many people just don't realise how thin and fragile early fender paint jobs were. You are not going to get vintage looks without vintage accurate paint. Ask yourself what a thirty year old strat looks like now ? ( the exact same as a new one.) Nitro thins and sinks in time so that's first .You need paint that dries crystal hard (brittle) and you need the same base coats that the guitar you are copying used . Early 50s ash fender would be; spirit based grain filler, sealer base coat clear, trans blond lacquer and sometimes but not always clear coat. You would need then in a relic Job to dilute the filler so that you get a bit of sink. Then you need to do the base coat to the finish you are looking for because you are not going to be able to loose much in wet sanding as this is going to be very thin. THEN you add the trans blond coats and if you are looking for discolouration you need to spray it on now in the form of tinted clear coat preferably in a least two shades. Now clear and leave it a month to harden.
You can now wet sand with 1500 -3000 very lightly and hand buff, no machines. This takes you to the position to do the checking and rub throughs.
I have my 61 replica strat basically waiting for Muskraft to send me the neck in this position . It is a fiesta red nitro over primer and sealer, very thin hand buffed and waiting for light relicing. The reason I like this as a finish option is the paint is very thin ,it looks good if you can do it well ,sounds better than anything thick enough to machine buff and if you do mark it (and you will) it's not a big deal.
I will go through the process on my 61 strat thread when I can resume it with the neck.
 
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