5150 build.

[Andy Eagle]

There will be a part 2.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Body is from Chris Locke. Neck is really from Musikraft. The only reason why i put clearcoat on, is the Kramer waterslide decal. With clear the decal is protect from damage. The vinyl stickers, too. The string-tree are made from a member of our Facebook group. They are all sold, but you can get it at:
rscustommachine.com
I know, many 5150 lovers like their replicas relicted, but not me. I want my guitar looks like new.

What brand and type paint did you use? I am trying to find the right colour in the UK and some spray paints don't dry very well on wood . I am testing a HB 2k primer and after 24hours I'm not happy with how hard it is. Duplicolour is not available in the UK and I read mixed reviews of that. The trouble I have is the paint has to be brittle hard to sound good and the nitro I used is but as I pointed out the colour is slightly off and if I relic it it won't look like the original because that was acrylic lacquer as far as I know and the ware will look different.

 

[Peter W.]

What brand and type paint did you use? I am trying to find the right colour in the UK and some spray paints don't dry very well on wood . I am testing a HB 2k primer and after 24hours I'm not happy with how hard it is. Duplicolour is not available in the UK and I read mixed reviews of that. The trouble I have is the paint has to be brittle hard to sound good and the nitro I used is but as I pointed out the colour is slightly off and if I relic it it won't look like the original because that was acrylic lacquer as far as I know and the ware will look different.

I used Duplicolor acrylic laquer and have no problems with it. But here in Germany we have a lot of paint-, and car stores, and they can mix you the car color you want, No matter if you want a 1k or 2k laquer. And if you want only two cans, you will get only two cans. I found a shop in the Netherlands, who sells the Chevy orange red color DE1607. I bought it from them and they delivered it to Germany. Maybe they´ll send it to the UK, too?
Search for: nonpaints.com. ( CROP shop ).

 

[Andy Eagle]

I used Duplicolor acrylic laquer and have no problems with it. But here in Germany we have a lot of paint-, and car stores, and they can mix you the car color you want, No matter if you want a 1k or 2k laquer. And if you want only two cans, you will get only two cans. I found a shop in the Netherlands, who sells the Chevy orange red color DE1607. I bought it from them and they delivered it to Germany. Maybe they´ll send it to the UK, too?
Search for: nonpaints.com. ( CROP shop ).

Thanks.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Part 2.
I have another body. This time a Locke basswood (which I know to be incorrect) BUT the weight is right and basswood is structurally very similar to Poplar so I'm going to use it . The first dilemma is do I make a neck angle routing jig just for this one guitar to get the neck in the right position as the original or do I leave it vintage Fender speck (which it is now.) It is 16mm deep and it should be about 18mm with a 1degree ish angle.
This is a nicely made body and in some ways more accurate than the Musikraft apart from this one (large ) detail difference. I fully understand that it makes it compatible with almost any fender neck but it's not the same as the original .
I am going to heavily relic this one to almost the last shots of it with the original pickup. So this means the paint is going to have to be as close to the original as possible or the ware will just not look right.

 

[Andy Eagle]

The Locke body;

Shape is great ,I can't fault it.

Contours are spot on and the finish is excellent.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Drilled Fender as I asked ( see previous about why I'm not using a vintage Kramer size plate.)
The aim this time will be to build a guitar that you would confuse with the original in appearance apart from ;
I will not use an FRT5 or it's nut.
I will use a fender pattern neck plate.
It will be my taste frets and fingerboard radius.
The relic will be as it is here;

But without the cigarette burns, this is a no smoking relic, after all this is what killed him.

 

[Andy Eagle]

You can see here that the neck pocket is not deep enough or angled but the transition is more accurate to the shape and position than the Muskraft.

Also in cavity rout is as the original in terms of the internal rout shape.

 

[Andy Eagle]

It even has a bit of open grain action pretty close to the original is size shape and location;

In fact the only reason I am pretty sure the original is Poplar is;
1. They all were at that point .
2. The colour of the uncovered wood when I saw it.
Under no circumstances is it ash, if it was you would clearly see grain lines all over the flat areas as well and you just don't. Unless someone is saying the flat part is grain filled and the arm contour isn't even sanded. Then the colour and the grain on the back. the original is a 'Sports' made body and they only made them in maple and poplar .E'd is as light as a feather. Sorry old rant but the internet is full of BS on this point.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Paint test;
As much as I liked using nitro in the original build it is not going to relic to the same appearance as the original and I can't get the exact colours either so this is out.
I have reason to believe the original is 1K acrylic but the red seams to have not sat well on the white. Particularly visible next to the trem;

This look like my test with acrylic enamel over 2K primer ;

This is a hardness and relic test.
I could use this red but I'm not happy with how hard it is after a week. I am also not happy with the HB 2k primer also not hard enough.
I could however make it look right to the original as it is has not dried smooth as the nitro would. I wonder if this formulation of red was used?

 

[Andy Eagle]

I know if you go to Facebook groups and forums you mostly get BS but George and Paul both ex Kramer people who claim to have been involved in making 5150 have had input .
George said he painted it but I think he painted everything but it. I base this only on the fact that he states he would paint many bodies for Ed 6 to 20 at a go and none of the known others are painted as badly or this colour.
Georges work largely ended up here;

These bodies and the ones I have seen in person are basswood ESP build Barretta bodies from slightly later and this is confirmed by the neck plate types and serial numbers on the finished guitars.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Paul converted a neck from either a beak or a strat .The Beak was a converted ESP OEM strat neck to start anyway.
Neither of these people can remember what the wood was of the original or any of the details so draw your own conclusions as to the input they both had.
Back to paint, I think Ed took the neck after Paul converted it and the body and put it together himself also painting it. I have no evidence for this other than the similarity in crudeness to Frankie in the approach. The tape is not on properly and stripes end with ripped tape before they reach the position. There are under spray parts where the tape in not down properly.The finish is terrible and the body is unsanded . This is in complete contrast to the ones George painted.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Last known pictures from 2015. The Kramer neck is back on which is good because I was concerned the body had been altered to take a Charvel 2 1/14" heel but fortunately it was a Fender sized heel. Not the original lock nut blocks have got to be replaced by modern ones.

 

[Peter W.]

Sure, Locke bodies are more accurate than Musikraft bodies. I have both of them. I think, the white on Ed‘s guitars were all bright white, but with all the years, the white turned into vintage white. That‘s the reason, why the red becomes more an orange color. Before i painted my guitar, i painted one piece of plywood with bright white and one piece with Wimbledon white. And then GM-WA7753 orange red. With the bright white, the red looks like the red of the old 5150 pictures. Btw, here is a reply of George Felise he posted in our Facebook group.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Sure, Locke bodies are more accurate than Musikraft bodies. I have both of them. I think, the white on Ed‘s guitars were all bright white, but with all the years, the white turned into vintage white. That‘s the reason, why the red becomes more an orange color. Before i painted my guitar, i painted one piece of plywood with bright white and one piece with Wimbledon white. And then GM-WA7753 orange red. With the bright white, the red looks like the red of the old 5150 pictures. Btw, here is a reply of George Felise he posted in our Facebook group.

I know what you mean but 5150 in your hand is easy to see the wood . Ash just doesn't look like that . I've painted many guitars over the years and I have been a full time tech for 30. I know what I'm looking at. If you saw a pine plank in half and paint the end grain you get the look of 5150 arm cut. The grain size can be the same on basswood, poplar and swamp ash so your looking at the colour and how porous the flat part is . Look at any vintage tele you will see the grain sink in the flat top easily and 5150 is thin paint. There is no grain sink in the top or back .Basswood is whiter than poplar and the grain is less porous also if you sand it only a bit it actually makes the grain stick out like in the pictures . They can all be the same weight so that is no help. All the later bodies that George painted are basswood and that was standard with the ESP body at the time. How could George know if he painted 5150 body if it was part of a batch and unidentifiable and why is it so different from the others . I think George is assuming he painted it because he did a bunch for Ed at the time.I would like to know the answers to my questions above . George could only be sure that he painted it if it stayed in the shop until Ed picked it up finished and decided it was better then 1984 and adopted it as number 1. This didn't happen, it's not ash and it's a different colour than the ones he painted. I doesn't even look similar to the others. I'm sure George thinks he must have painted it but I think he is assuming one of the ones he did paint must be it. Did he see it again after he thinks he painted it? Ed's strat styles in 82 are swamp ash and all the latter ones are basswood but this leaves a pacer special.

 

[Peter W.]

Paint test;
As much as I liked using nitro in the original build it is not going to relic to the same appearance as the original and I can't get the exact colours either so this is out.
I have reason to believe the original is 1K acrylic but the red seams to have not sat well on the white. Particularly visible next to the trem;
View attachment 87616
This look like my test with acrylic enamel over 2K primer ;
View attachment 87617
This is a hardness and relic test.
I could use this red but I'm not happy with how hard it is after a week. I am also not happy with the HB 2k primer also not hard enough.
I could however make it look right to the original as it is has not dried smooth as the nitro would. I wonder if this formulation of red was used?

I think, after spraying the white coat, they don‘t sand the white. They striped directly the body and painted it red. That‘s why the red doesn‘t sat well.

 

[Andy Eagle]

I think, after spraying the white coat, they don‘t sand the white. They striped directly the body and painted it red. That‘s why the red doesn‘t sat well.

I agree but I couldn't easily get it that bad. Thin white, tape and straight on with the red probably the next day. Then stencil the black 5150 is not the work of someone experienced in spray painting. George seems to be saying that they had a special set of bodies made in basswood and swamp ash (neither of which the made at the time and built out of house) just for Ed that they then decided not to sand and finish them like a kid did it. I think that is BS.

 

[Andy Eagle]

I had wondered if 5150 was actually chevy orange red rattle can over factory white primer that ed got them to just prime and then took the body and the neck with him. There will be a reason as to why it is so crude.
This is probably one of George's;

A bit too good really .
You can't quite tell but in person it's not the same colour. This body is basswood and the pickup is a JBJ, BTW.
6150 sized frets and a 10" radius (for the curious .)

 

[Andy Eagle]

This is how swamp ash looks if you paint the bare wood;

Clearly visible ash grain and a completely different look on the arm contour .
Paul made this guitar and it's pretty clear that 5150 is not this.

 

[Peter W.]

I had wondered if 5150 was actually chevy orange red rattle can over factory white primer that ed got them to just prime and then took the body and the neck with him. There will be a reason as to why it is so crude.
This is probably one of George's;
View attachment 87628
A bit too good really .
You can't quite tell but in person it's not the same colour. This body is basswood and the pickup is a JBJ, BTW.
6150 sized frets and a 10" radius (for the curious .)

It‘s hard to tell, if it‘s the same color, because of different lights. See my pictures. Both pictures show my guitar with the same color.