4CM Updated To 4.00 Output 1 LED CLIP

Paulg2uk

Paulg2uk

Power User
Hi guys,

I just wanted to ask you all something. I'm sure this has been asked before but I've just updated to 4.00 and I seem to be getting output 1 led clip when adding certain effect like reverb, chorus etc. I've recently added a flanger block to the back end of the fx loop block and that seems to be making the signal hotter I'm not sure why. I'm thinking there's too many blocks in the grid?

I just wondered what levels you all suggest to lower and stop the Out 1 led clipping?

I've uploaded my preset for you all to have a look at. I didn't have this problem in the previous firmware.

Thanks in advance

Paul
 

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If you set your output to read around 0dB on the built-in VU meter, you'll never clip.

Start with everything bypassed except your amp and cab. Set the amp's output level to read 0 on the meter.

Now watch the VU meter while bypassing one block at a time. That will tell you how much level each effect is adding to the mix. Adjust the level for that effect until the meter reads 0 again.
 
@Rex It's an FX only preset set up for 4CM so no Amp or Cab blocks

With the external preamp (FX send from real amp) missing it's harder to determine where the problem lies ...... the first natural thing to suspect is the incoming preamp signal is maybe a bit hotter than before for some reason ......... but Rex's method would work once your amp's preamp is on line.

Fire up your loudest possible Scene and work through the grid block by block.

There's a parallel 4dB 'boost' Null Filter block (bypass mode= mute) I see on the last grid spot before the output (so it has no effect on the TremPan block which is the last block in the main signal path above it) ...... is that positioning intentional?

When you split your main signal path into 2 rows and have 2 'tails' hitting the Output it doubles up on your output signal - so with the Null Filter block un-bypassed (Boost switch On) you're adding more than the +4dB gain it is set at ... more like 7dB. I think this might be another potential problem area.

If you maybe just 'ran out of room' on the grid row and had to put the Filter block on the second row and therefore sacrifice ever boosting the TremPan block then I'd say better to use the Feedback Send and Feedback Return FX blocks to split the signal path and give yourself more space so you can put the Filter block in-line with Bypass Mode=Thru and just have 1 signal tail hitting the Output Mixer like below:

4cm_fix.jpg
 
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Reactions: Rex
maxdown said:
@Rex It's an FX only preset set up for 4CM so no Amp or Cab blocks

With the external preamp (FX send from real amp) missing it's harder to determine where the problem lies ...... the first natural thing to suspect is the incoming preamp signal is maybe a bit hotter than before for some reason ......... but Rex's method would work once your amp's preamp is on line.

Fire up your loudest possible Scene and work through the grid block by block.

There's a parallel 4dB 'boost' Null Filter block (bypass mode= mute) I see on the last grid spot before the output (so it has no effect on the TremPan block which is the last block in the main signal path above it) ...... is that positioning intentional?

When you split your main signal path into 2 rows and have 2 'tails' hitting the Output it doubles up on your output signal - so with the Null Filter block un-bypassed (Boost switch On) you're adding more than the +4dB gain it is set at ... more like 7dB. I think this might be another potential problem area.

If you maybe just 'ran out of room' on the grid row and had to put the Filter block on the second row and therefore sacrifice ever boosting the TremPan block then I'd say better to use the Feedback Send and Feedback Return FX blocks to split the signal path and give yourself more space so you can put the Filter block in-line with Bypass Mode=Thru and just have 1 signal tail hitting the Output Mixer like below:

4cm_fix.jpg
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the reply, I did run out of room on the grid you are quite right hence the layout. I never thought of splitting it like that I'll have a go. I should probably add that I've reduce the Boost/Pad level in the axe's IO menu to quite a low amount and that seems to have helped the problem. It was set fairly high at 15db, I'm not sure if that was there right thing to do? The filter block is only there to boost my clean channel as I no longer have a solo control on my boogie. I will give the send and and return blocks a go though.
 
15dB does sound a bit high in the Boost/Pad .... but I don't use 4CM so not really qualified to advise.

One other thing though (just my personal preference) ..... I'd probably move the Vol/Pan tied to your Exp pedal to just after the FXL Block or even further down the line - even right as far as just before the delay. When it's the first block in the chain it acts more like a guitar volume pot and 'cleans up' as you depress the pedal. Of course, that might be your intention in which case ignore me and keep on doing your thing ;)
 
maxdown said:
15dB does sound a bit high in the Boost/Pad .... but I don't use 4CM so not really qualified to advise.

One other thing though (just my personal preference) ..... I'd probably move the Vol/Pan tied to your Exp pedal to just after the FXL Block or even further down the line - even right as far as just before the delay. When it's the first block in the chain it acts more like a guitar volume pot and 'cleans up' as you depress the pedal. Of course, that might be your intention in which case ignore me and keep on doing your thing ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your suggestions guys I will give it a go. If I've now altered output 1 boost/pad which was clipping in the first place and was set quite high I'm assuming I don't need to lower Output 2 Boost/pad as well? That was never clipping by the way.

I will try the volume pedal further on in the chain I've always had mine at the beginning of the chain. If it's set further back it will affect the actual volume and not the gain like it is at the moment? So I can basically play with the same gain stage but at a lower volume?

Cheers

Paul
 
Correct .... your 'amp block' is in effect the FXL block so putting it after that will maintain your gain and only affect volume ....... and placing it before the delay and Reverb blocks will allow any delay tails and Reverb to 'spillover' and decay naturally if you like it like that.
 
maxdown said:
Correct .... your 'amp block' is in effect the FXL block so putting it after that will maintain your gain and only affect volume ....... and placing it before the delay and Reverb blocks will allow any delay tails and Reverb to 'spillover' and decay naturally if you like it like that.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, just tried your suggested grid layout, I'm not getting any output thru my cab for some reason, both output 1 and 2 VU's are showing signal though. Do I have to connect the return and send blocks to something else?
 
In Axe-Edit ..... Make sure 'Send Level' in the Feedback Send block is at 100% and 'Mix' in the Feedback Return block is at 100%
 
maxdown said:
In Axe-Edit ..... Make sure 'Send Level' in the Feedback Send block is at 100% and 'Mix' in the Feedback Return block is at 100%
Click to expand...

Got it, the filter block needs to be on as well it that right? I was hoping to use the filter block to boost my clean chan if needed.
 
On Filter block just ensure it's Bypass Mode = Thru (you had it at Bypass Mode = Mute previously) - that means you just hit your 'boost' IA switch and you get +4dB boost (or whatever output level you set it to) on the whole Scene regardless of what channel's coming into the FXL block from your amp - and when it's bypassed the signal is passed through it at normal levels
 
maxdown said:
On Filter block just ensure it's Bypass Mode = Thru (you had it at Bypass Mode = Mute previously) - that means you just hit your 'boost' IA switch and you get +4dB boost on the whole Scene regardless of what channel's coming into the FXL block from your amp - and when it's bypassed the signal is passed through it at normal levels
Click to expand...

Of course, I should of realised that in the first place lol. Sounds awesome by the way! I've moved the vol block now and it does make quite difference. Thanks again for your help
 
flash6969 said:
I use 4CM & the boost pad is set to 12db. It's also about your signal/noise ratio.

Check your levels in the input/output sections - the boost pad won't help you much with this problem
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on you amp's FX loop. I've reduced my boost pad level quite considerably and it has helped to stop output 1 clipping. Plus the new grid layout that maxdown has suggested works really well.
 
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