4CM Sucking My Tone!

bigfoamfinger

bigfoamfinger

Inspired
Running my tube amp in 4CM and something's not quite right. The III seems to really dampen my tone. Like a blanket over the amp. Simple delay/reverb in the signal chain, so nothing major.

I AB'd this setup against the amp straight into the Ox, and it sounds great that way. I'm sure there is a quick setting on the III that needs adjusted--any tips?
 
You'd better avoid signal conversions, A/D and/or D/A, and keep analog signal be preserved unaffected as possible.
Guitar->III input-> send to tube amp input -> Fx serial loop send -> [line mixer input (1) split signal
to III return, (2) another signal in parallel be mixed with output of III at OUT 1 mono] => amp return.
In this setup, killdry be maintained in III's, that is all the time-based effects be 100% wet... see this one;
https://www.suhr.com/electronics/tone-tools/suhr-minimix-ii/
 
Check to make sure your cables are good. The Axe Fx III should be nearly transparent in front of the amp. You might also want to make sure that the input impedance on the patch you are using is set to the highest value.
 
Are your global output EQs in the I/O menu set flat or turned off?

*correction - Global Settings menu
 
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OrganicZed said:
Check to make sure your cables are good. The Axe Fx III should be nearly transparent in front of the amp. You might also want to make sure that the input impedance on the patch you are using is set to the highest value.
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I was running it in the loop, and nothing in front of the amp. Could that be the problem? I figured this setup should work


mr_fender said:
Are your global output EQs in the I/O menu set flat or turned off?
Click to expand...

I’ll have to check. How should they be set?
 
Running the Axe in the loop only should be fine. It might be the design of the amp that is at fault here. Some effects loops are poorly implemented and are not transparent as a consequence.
 
Try out first if the Amp loop itself could be the problem. Just put a cable into send and return and hear if it's affect the tone.
What Amp are we talking about?
I never had a single problem with my Friedman.
Cheers
Sash
 
unix-guy said:
Make sure you're gain staging properly and not losing level... Are you using page 28 of the manual to guide your connection setup?
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Yeah, but after looking at the manual now there are a couple settings tweaks I need to make, that the manual mentions. Will give that a try


Sash said:
Try out first if the Amp loop itself could be the problem. Just put a cable into send and return and hear if it's affect the tone.
What Amp are we talking about?
I never had a single problem with my Friedman.
Cheers
Sash
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Matchless DC30. It’s gotta be something I’m not doing right
 
My Matchless Avalon 30 has its loop as a single 1/4" jack, needs Y-cable. DC30,too?
Levels back and forth between tube amp and outboard gear such as Fx3 are critical.
My amp uses ALA-1, as shown below. Absolutely no problem in 4CM with FM3 and III.
Amazon product ASIN B00FKRELC6
 
One way around this, if a short cable isn't practical, is to use something like a Tube Screamer in bypass as a buffer. Connect the shortest cable you can to the Tube Screamer and then the long cable from the Tube Screamer to the Axe-Fx. Not perfect but vastly better than nothing. There's also a risk of clipping the pedal.

I have a dedicated buffer I use when measuring amps like this with crappy loops.
 
Sash said:
Try out the cable trick but the problem seems common with the matchless, I just found this:

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/matchless-dc-30-effects-loop-question.1995579/
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Oh wow so it IS the amp. What a bummer. Had the same experience with Strymons mentioned here, and had only tried their pedals in the loop before the III.

honeypat said:
My Matchless Avalon 30 has its loop as a single 1/4" jack, needs Y-cable. DC30,too?
Levels back and forth between tube amp and outboard gear such as Fx3 are critical.
My amp uses ALA-1, as shown below. Absolutely no problem in 4CM with FM3 and III.
Amazon product ASIN B00FKRELC6
Click to expand...

Yeah I have the Y cable loop setup as well. have been using a cheap one from Amazon for the last few years Sorry I’m a newb with loops, what’s ALA?


FractalAudio said:
One way around this, if a short cable isn't practical, is to use something like a Tube Screamer in bypass as a buffer. Connect the shortest cable you can to the Tube Screamer and then the long cable from the Tube Screamer to the Axe-Fx. Not perfect but vastly better than nothing. There's also a risk of clipping the pedal.

I have a dedicated buffer I use when measuring amps like this with crappy loops.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Have you had success with any particular buffer over another? I have a TS I can try there but may also grab a dedicated buffer (like the JHS)
 
bigfoamfinger said:
Have you had success with any particular buffer over another? I have a TS I can try there but may also grab a dedicated buffer (like the JHS)
Click to expand...
I use a buffer of my own design that runs much higher voltages than a pedal. Start with what you have. No sense it buying something if you already have something that will work. Any Boss pedal will work as they have buffered bypass. Not a lot of headroom though.
 
FractalAudio said:
The loop in a DC30 is terrible. It's passive with a very high output impedance. If you use anything more than a few feet of cable you're going to lose high end. A typical 10 ft. cable will yield a bandwidth of only around 6 kHz.
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Having an HC30, I can vouch for this. The send level is also somehow tied directly to the preamp volume knob and overloads effects in the loop quickly. I had to have a junction box built with a 6dB pad in order to not overload the input of my H9.
 
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boyce89976 said:
Having an HC30, I can vouch for this. The send level is also somehow tied directly to the preamp volume knob and overloads effects in the loop quickly. I had to have a junction box built with a 6dB pad in order to not overload the input of my H9.
Click to expand...
Yes, the loop is after the volume control.

Crappy loops are typical of many "boutique" amps.
 
If this amps loop is this bad (I’m not surprised) does anyone mod it to be useful? Has the manufacturer addressed this issue at all (other than saying yea our loop sucks, sorry)?
 
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