I have a few crucial questions. Hope you can shed some light.

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I have been thinking whether to go "standard cab" or "FRFR".

Things to consider:

- 1st and foremost; i am looking for the best tone possible.
- I like things to be simple.


Will I really take advantage on having an FRFR other than speaker simulation?
Will an active Matrix for ex. be enough for clubs where PA is not available?
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Regarding the backup/restore option. After a firmware update will i be able to restore the presets as to how i had them before or is this a bad idea? Sound changing for the worst etc?

As i've said on another forum; i shouldn't excessively tweak AX8 anyway...
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About the 4CM with the AX8. Does it bring real benefits?
Unless there is a certain effect i really need that the unit does not have, I will be using only AX8.
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I am considering using the wah from the unit. Is one expression pedal enough for effects such as wha, whammy diving and as a global volume pedal.

Or is it a bad idea concerning the way the unit works and programming it for this intention. Do i need two?
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Any other essential things to keep in mind for the best tone? I'm not concerned about Humbuster cables. I have very high quality jacks.
 
I dont think anyone can answer your questions fully. Depends on if you like the tones in the AX8. You should ask in the forums if anyone has one in your area, and see if they will let you demo it. A guy on TGP let me do with for the Atomic Amplifire.
 
I like the tones of the AX8, otherwise i wouldn't be wasting my time posting. I am looking to own one eventually.
I doubt anyone in my area has an ax8. Will check anyway, for it and powered FRFR cabs.

What about the other questions? :)
 
Those are tough questions for anyone to answer. There are literally hundreds of threads dedicated to the debate between FRFR vs. Power amp/cab...

Personally, I like using FRFR because I can then take full advantage of everything that the AxeFX/AX8 has to offer. I tried several different solutions along the way and finally decided to go with the Atomic CLR. This is one that you are going to have to answer for yourself.

I have been using the AxeII since it came out. After FW updates I rarely have to make adjustments to the presets. There is no need to "restore" the presets because the FW update does not wipe them out. There have been updates where I thought things needed some changes, but it's usually pretty minor and not a total start-over kind of overhaul. To some degree, it really depends on how obsessive you are about getting your tones.

4CM does not necessarily bring benefits. It just allows you to use the AX8's effects with your amp. I personally do not use the amp and cab modeling with an amp. If you are interested in 4CM with an amp and don't want to use the amp and cab modeling, the FX8 is the better product for that, IMO.

Now if you are talking about using the effects loop with the AX8, then that's not what I would call 4CM. The effects are excellent in the AX8, but the are always unique and specialty pedals that you will not be able to duplicate. Effects in front of the AX8, or in the loop, all work great.

Edit: I removed the info I had on using one expression pedal for multiple functions because it was wrong.

Hope that helps.
 
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Will I really take advantage on having an FRFR other than speaker simulation?
I'm not sure what you're asking.


Will an active Matrix for ex. be enough for clubs where PA is not available?
I think so, but I've never used one, so I can't tell you for certain.


Regarding the backup/restore option. After a firmware update will i be able to restore the presets as to how i had them before or is this a bad idea? Sound changing for the worst etc?
Yes, you can restore your presets after an update. In fact, they will already in your AX8 after the update. If it was a major update with significant modeling changes, you might want to readjust, but they will most likely work well even if you don't.


About the 4CM with the AX8. Does it bring real benefits?
Unless there is a certain effect i really need that the unit does not have, I will be using only AX8.
The advantage of 4CM is that you can choose to user either the AX8's modeling or your traditional amp's preamp and/or power amp. If that's not something you intend to do, then there is no advantage.


I am considering using the wah from the unit. Is one expression pedal enough for effects such as wha, whammy diving and as a global volume pedal....Do i need two?
How many different things do you want to have foot control over in a single preset? That's how many expression pedals you need. If you only need to control wah, then you only need one pedal.



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- 1st and foremost; i am looking for the best tone possible.
The AX8 has superb tone.


- I like things to be simple.
There is nothing simpler than having your amp, effects pedals and controller all in one small box on the floor.
 
To really take advantage of speaker sims you need to run FRFR. Running that way has the added benefit of not needing to mic a cabinet live. It simplifies some monitoring situations live and can help you reduce your stage footprint.

I'm not familiar with the Matrix speakers but I imagine they'd be sufficient. I know my CLR would be enough as would a ton of the other powered PA speakers out there (they are meant to fill the room).

I've never had major issues with presets after an upgrade.

If you have a good tube amp then running 4CM adds a lot of power. At any given time you could be using your tube amp's preamp, a preamp simulation from the AX8, or a both at the same time (pseudo dual amp).

You need as many expression pedals as you want - nobody can answer that but you - think through your usages and there's your answer. Personally, I like 3: one for volume, one for wah, and one for other. This lets me use a wah with a univibe on where an expression pedal is controlling the rate of the vibe.
 
Those are tough questions for anyone to answer. There are literally hundreds of threads dedicated to the debate between FRFR vs. Power amp/cab...

Personally, I like using FRFR because I can then take full advantage of everything that the AxeFX/AX8 has to offer. I tried several different solutions along the way and finally decided to go with the Atomic CLR. This is one that you are going to have to answer for yourself.

I have been using the AxeII since it came out. After FW updates I rarely have to make adjustments to the presets. There is no need to "restore" the presets because the FW update does not wipe them out. There have been updates where I thought things needed some changes, but it's usually pretty minor and not a total start-over kind of overhaul. To some degree, it really depends on how obsessive you are about getting your tones.

4CM does not necessarily bring benefits. It just allows you to use the AX8's effects with your amp. I personally do not use the amp and cab modeling with an amp. If you are interested in 4CM with an amp and don't want to use the amp and cab modeling, the FX8 is the better product for that, IMO.

Now if you are talking about using the effects loop with the AX8, then that's not what I would call 4CM. The effects are excellent in the AX8, but the are always unique and specialty pedals that you will not be able to duplicate. Effects in front of the AX8, or in the loop, all work great.

Edit: I removed the info I had on using one expression pedal for multiple functions because it was wrong.

Hope that helps.

Thanks!

FRFR vs Real Cab:
I need to check if i can try an FRFR...

FW Updates:
I thought the FW updates wiped them out. You see how much internet and certain forums can be misleading...
Regarding the tones; not obsessive at all. It will be mostly plug and play with the regular adjustments. That is one of the reasons i favour Fractal over other products that rival it.

4CM:
The main reason for the AX8 is more flexibility and not being stuck with the limitations of a real tube amp; lets say a BE100 or 5153. I didn't like the fact i couldn't get a pristine clean with the 5153. I think it's amazing i will get bogner sound, friedman, trainwreck, mesa boogie mark V etc.... Let's not talk about portability or the fact i'l have an all in 1 solution in one box for a great price.

What i've been thinking is about getting a tube power amp (clean only without much colouration); just to give you the natural wave sounds the ear likes, when a tube amp is loud. Crank a shitty line 6 solid state and you'l hear what i am talking about.
Makes sense what i am saying?
But i heard fractal takes better advantage of solid state power amps.
 
The Fractal models three main amp sound components:

Preamplifier, Power Amplifier, Speaker Cabinet.

How you setup your rig would typically determine which of these components you are using.

With FRFR and a solid state amplifier, like the Matrix, then you would typically use all three: Fractal -> FRFR Poweramp sims on, cabinet sims on.

With a tube power amp and guitar cab you might only use the preamp sim: Fractal -> Tube Amp -> Guitar Cab Poweramp sim off, cabinet sim off.

There are global settings to turn off the poweramp and cabinet sim as needed.

The preamp sim is part of the amp block model and can't be defeated separately.
 
To really take advantage of speaker sims you need to run FRFR. Running that way has the added benefit of not needing to mic a cabinet live. It simplifies some monitoring situations live and can help you reduce your stage footprint.

I'm not familiar with the Matrix speakers but I imagine they'd be sufficient. I know my CLR would be enough as would a ton of the other powered PA speakers out there (they are meant to fill the room).

I've never had major issues with presets after an upgrade.

If you have a good tube amp then running 4CM adds a lot of power. At any given time you could be using your tube amp's preamp, a preamp simulation from the AX8, or a both at the same time (pseudo dual amp).

You need as many expression pedals as you want - nobody can answer that but you - think through your usages and there's your answer. Personally, I like 3: one for volume, one for wah, and one for other. This lets me use a wah with a univibe on where an expression pedal is controlling the rate of the vibe.

Thanks! I am totally new to this technologies and what the AX8 can do with an FRFR. By stage footprint you mean the space you take?

As i wrote @ethomas1013, i would like a bit of the real dynamics of a tube amp sound. So to save some bucks and instead of having a shitty tube amp head i might buy a tube power amp. All distortion, cleans will come from the AX8.

Expression pedals:
I never used a separated volume pedal. I used a shitty Boss GT6 before. When wah was inactive or unless a preset had the pedal assigned to control a specific effect; the pedal controlled volume.
As I will use one effect at a time. "1" expression pedal is enough and will behave same an in the Boss GT6 case; correct?
 
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Rex said:
I'm not sure what you're asking.

Need to try an FRFR.

Rex said:
The advantage of 4CM is that you can choose to user either the AX8's modeling or your traditional amp's preamp and/or power amp. If that's not something you intend to do, then there is no advantage.

I won't use the distortion from a good tube amp head. No money for all that. If there was i would love to use the amp plus the other amps in the AX8.


Rex said:
How many different things do you want to have foot control over in a single preset? That's how many expression pedals you need. If you only need to control wah, then you only need one pedal.

As I wrote @hippietim I used a shitty Boss GT6 before. When wah was inactive or unless a preset had the pedal assigned to control a specific effect; the pedal controlled volume.
As I will use one effect at a time. "1" expression pedal is enough and will behave same an in the Boss GT6 case; correct?

Rex said:
The AX8 has superb tone.

Incredible!

Rex said:
There is nothing simpler than having your amp, effects pedals and controller all in one small box on the floor.

I agree. It's amazing!
 
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Thanks! I am totally new to this technologies and what the AX8 can do with an FRFR. By stage footprint you mean the space you take?

Yep. I don't know about you but a lot of places we play give you a postage stamp area to setup so less stuff is always better.

As i wrote @ethomas1013, i would like a bit of the real dynamics of a tube amp sound. So to save some bucks and instead of having a shitty tube amp head i might buy a tube power amp. All distortion, cleans will come from the AX8.

Stay tuned. I am going to post a video later with the AX8 and a Fryette Power Station (Google it).

Expression pedals:
I never used a separated volume pedal. I used a shitty Boss GT6 before. When wah was inactive or unless a preset had the pedal assigned to control a specific effect; the pedal controlled volume.
As I will use one effect at a time. "1" expression pedal is enough and will behave same an in the Boss GT6 case; correct?

Like the GT6, t's up to you to designate what the expression pedal will do for each patch.
 
Yep. I don't know about you but a lot of places we play give you a postage stamp area to setup so less stuff is always better.

Oh ye. I am looking to get two 1x12 cabs. Will take only one for small places.

Stay tuned. I am going to post a video later with the AX8 and a Fryette Power Station (Google it).

I will. If it sounds great i prefer this route (the ear likes the natural waves of tubes).
Whether i use an FRFR or standard cab....
So far FRFR (judging from youtube videos) sounds too digital to me...


Like the GT6, t's up to you to designate what the expression pedal will do for each patch.

I will only know this after having the unit :) as there might be different approaches. I think "2" pedals might be necessary. 1 as a global volume controller; keeping in mind the presets are more or less even in volume, another to control assignable effects on some presets; and my cry baby for wah.
 
The beauty with an AX8 and an FRFR is that with a good light-weight FRFR you could really take down the weight of the equipment you for example need to drag up to the eight floor where a restaurant is, or transport gear from a parking spot eight blocks from the venue and so on and so on...
 
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I have been thinking whether to go "standard cab" or "FRFR".
Things to consider:
- 1st and foremost; i am looking for the best tone possible.
- I like things to be simple.
Will I really take advantage on having an FRFR other than speaker simulation?
Will an active Matrix for ex. be enough for clubs where PA is not available?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the 4CM with the AX8. Does it bring real benefits?
Unless there is a certain effect i really need that the unit does not have, I will be using only AX8.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimately it depends on what serves your music: some thoughts;

Best tone? or best tones: If you need to do more than you can get out of a few amps that match up nicely with the one speaker cabinet, then the cabinet is out. IMO its important to recognize that a guitar speaker cabinet is a filtering, resonant sound generator that is part of the tube amp tone creation system. It is a substantially different animal from a sound reproduction system as in a PA or FRFR: Look at a graph of a guitar speaker's frequency response: nothing flat about it: its designed to allow the guitar and amp to scream, bellow and sing. The FRFR is as flat and accurate a reproduction of the input signal as possible. Apples and Oranges. One substantial advantage of an AX8 into FRFR (along with being able to choose any amp & cab) is that studio type effects such as delays and reverbs are often routed parallel to or after the cabinet to get pristine quality that is not at all possible being routed through a cabinet (which will color everything going through it and filter out pretty much all signal over 5K). Lush rotary speaker sims really come alive with stereo FRFR.

That said: I love the way simple classic tones through an open backed cabinet set in a specific place blends with piano, winds, brass, drums, bass etc.: it creates a different experience of the space and the music than you get out of mixing to a PA. In some situations, using amp models into a cabinet is great. But this sort of thing is lost in loud music amplified through multiple monitors and a PA: so optimal quality and flexibility will probably be AX8 direct to monitors and PA for many styles and venues.

As far as 4CM: if you insist on using an amp, you can usefully put effects before and after the amp: will it sound as good as leaving the amp at home and doing it all with the AX8? I seriously doubt it: Even with a Zoom G5 I get better overall sound with equivalent routing than years of various 4CM setups with amps and analog effects. (can't say the same of some other brands)

Won't be in the budget for quite a while, but I'm looking into the FRFRs, and I would suggest looking at 10" FRFR for guitar. (I do prefer 12" for actual guitar cabinets): Of the FRFR monitors I've auditioned so far: 10" sound more dimensional & immediate than the 12s. For low tuned stuff, I'd be inclined to use a sub rather than go to the 12s. Also I will go stereo. My 2 cents.
 
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The beauty with an AX8 and an FRFR is that with a good light-weight FRFR you could really take down the weight of the equipment you for example need to drag up to the eight floor where a restaurant is, or transport gear from a parking spot eight blocks from the venue and so on and so on...

Yep. Agreed!
 
Ultimately it depends on what serves your music: some thoughts;

Best tone? or best tones: If you need to do more than you can get out of a few amps that match up nicely with the one speaker cabinet, then the cabinet is out. IMO its important to recognize that a guitar speaker cabinet is a filtering, resonant sound generator that is part of the tube amp tone creation system. It is a substantially different animal from a sound reproduction system as in a PA or FRFR: Look at a graph of a guitar speaker's frequency response: nothing flat about it: its designed to allow the guitar and amp to scream, bellow and sing. The FRFR is as flat and accurate a reproduction of the input signal as possible. Apples and Oranges. One substantial advantage of an AX8 into FRFR (along with being able to choose any amp & cab) is that studio type effects such as delays and reverbs are often routed parallel to or after the cabinet to get pristine quality that is not at all possible being routed through a cabinet (which will color everything going through it and filter out pretty much all signal over 5K). Lush rotary speaker sims really come alive with stereo FRFR.

That said: I love the way simple classic tones through an open backed cabinet set in a specific place blends with piano, winds, brass, drums, bass etc.: it creates a different experience of the space and the music than you get out of mixing to a PA. In some situations, using amp models into a cabinet is great. But this sort of thing is lost in loud music amplified through multiple monitors and a PA: so optimal quality and flexibility will probably be AX8 direct to monitors and PA for many styles and venues.

As far as 4CM: if you insist on using an amp, you can usefully put effects before and after the amp: will it sound as good as leaving the amp at home and doing it all with the AX8? I seriously doubt it: Even with a Zoom G5 I get better overall sound with equivalent routing than years of various 4CM setups with amps and analog effects. (can't say the same of some other brands)

Won't be in the budget for quite a while, but I'm looking into the FRFRs, and I would suggest looking at 10" FRFR for guitar. (I do prefer 12" for actual guitar cabinets): Of the FRFR monitors I've auditioned so far: 10" sound more dimensional & immediate than the 12s. For low tuned stuff, I'd be inclined to use a sub rather than go to the 12s. Also I will go stereo. My 2 cents.

Thanks. valuable feedback!

artzeal said: For low tuned stuff, I'd be inclined to use a sub rather than go to the 12s.

You mean subwoofer? Oh boy i have so much to learn about this new stuff :D
One step at a time :)
 
If never use a sub with a guitar. Leave some room for the bass....

No need for a sub for guitar personally, but I've recorded guys with 7 and 8 strings that want more low end than you can get out of a conventional cabinet. A sub is also nice if there's synth parts, low octave pitch shifting etc. I'll also want to play bass through the AX8.

Plus; with 2 x 10" FRFR and a small sub: you're set for the whole band.
In any case, I won't be buying anything until the AX8 is under foot for the audition.
 
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