'4-Cable Method' w/ Real Amp

Toopy14

Toopy14

Axe-Master
Does anyone use the Axe-Fx using the '3-Cable Method' with a real amp.? In other words, routing Output 2 via the Fx-Loop into the pre-amp of the amp. with amp. and cab. modelling disabled and routing Output 1 to the Effects Return loop of the amp., with amp. modelling enabled?

If so, I'm interested in hearing opinions about this method in terms of how well it works.

Thanks!
 
Toopy14 said:
Does anyone use the Axe-Fx using the '3-Cable Method' with a real amp.? In other words, routing Output 2 via the Fx-Loop into the pre-amp of the amp. with amp. and cab. modelling disabled and routing Output 1 to the Effects Return loop of the amp., with amp. modelling enabled?
Click to expand...
why are you calling it "3 cable"? are you referring to something other than the more well-known 4-Cable Method?

with the setup you described, you're saying you have the full layout/chain going through the same amp 2 different times, just one with modeling, the other without. this would mean your Reverb for example is going through the Preamp in AND the Loop return.

do you know what the 4 cable method is?
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the 4CM. I called it the 3CM because I wasn't including the send from the effects loop.

Correct, one with modelling, one without. I have an AC30, so if I wanted to use a Fender amp model, for example, I could use the power amp of my AC30 and speakers. Then when I want to use my real amp., I would use the Axe-Fx for effect only.

So would I just used the 4CM method?
 
The 3CM you described is possible if your amp's loop is switchable and you don't mind switching as needed, and never plan to use any effects after the external preamp. Otherwise, 4CM would probably make more sense.
 
Bakerman said:
The 3CM you described is possible if your amp's loop is switchable and you don't mind switching as needed, and never plan to use any effects after the external preamp. Otherwise, 4CM would probably make more sense.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. You'd never want both axe signals active at the same time, but the 4CM basically does this already; just bypass the amp block etc when you want.
 
Maybe I should have started with what I'm trying to accomplish. I would like to be able to use the Axe-Fx in the following two ways described in the manual, but not at the same time.

3.4.3 Axe-Fx with Power amp and Guitar Speakers, so I can use amp and cab modelling.

or

3.4.8 Axe-Fx as Effects Processor Only, no amp and cab modelling.
 
When using the AC30 preamp, do you want to be able to place effects both before and after it?

Manual chapter 3.4.8 shows connections for before & after separately. It's not clear if you want to use it in one of those ways, or have the options allowed by 4CM (3.4.6).
 
Do you want to be able to place effects both before and after the AC30 preamp?

If so, connect for 4CM as described in manual.
 
So what would the 4CM method look like on the grid? I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around it. Would the output of the Fx-Loop block be connected to the input of the next block?
 
Yes, in 4CM the FX Loop block = your external preamp. An example of a 4CM routing would be any factory preset, except replacing amp block w/ FXL block. You'll probably want to disable cab sims globally when playing through a guitar amp speaker. (Or if building new presets, simply don't use a cab block.)
 
i would suggest just setting up the 4CM and trying it. there really isn't a "3CM" and perhaps trying to create it is causing issue.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
i would suggest just setting up the 4CM and trying it. there really isn't a "3CM" and perhaps trying to create it is causing issue.
Click to expand...

I probably shouldn't have called it 3CM. Basically what I've been doing, is running the Axe-Fx from Output 2 into the guitar input of my A30. My presets don't contain any amp. or cab blocks. I would then place the Fx-Loop at the end of the chain followed by a shunt.

When I want to use an amp. sim., I would take Output 1 of the Axe-Fx and plug into the return of the effects loop of the AC30. Those presets would not contain the Fx-Loop block and the chain would go through my effects blocks and into the output of the grid.

Just experimenting at the moment. So would 4CM allow me to do this and more?
 
Last edited:
Toopy14 said:
So would 4CM allow me to do this and more?
Click to expand...

Yes. The "more" part is the ability to route effects after or parallel to the AC30 preamp. And you wouldn't need to manually switch the AC30 loop to use one type of preset or another. (This step would be required if omitting the AC30 send -> Axe-FX input 2 cable.)
 
Bakerman said:
Yes. The "more" part is the ability to route effects after or parallel to the AC30 preamp. And you wouldn't need to manually switch the AC30 loop to use one type of preset or another. (This step would be required if omitting the AC30 send -> Axe-FX input 2 cable.)
Click to expand...

So to use amp and cab sims through the power amp of the AC30, I would just bypass or eliminate the Fx-Loop block?
 
I don't quite understand why the send of the effects loop (ie. the power amp) gets connected to the IN-2L of the Axe-Fx using the 4CM?
 
Last edited:
Bypass or eliminate FX Loop to use Axe straight to power amp w/ 4CM. (You may not want to use cab sims into a guitar speaker, but you can try.)

An amp's effects loop send is the output of its preamp. If you don't connect that to the Axe-FX, there's no way to place effects between preamp & power amp. The signal at Input 2 becomes the FX Loop block output, to the next grid column.
 
Bakerman said:
An amp's effects loop send is the output of its preamp.
Click to expand...

Damn...that's the piece I was missing!!! upload_2016-9-20_13-38-39.png

So the Fx-Loop Block, is the preamp.

I hooked it up this morning and I was experimenting a bit...sounds damn good. I found that when using amp. sims, it sounds better with power amp modelling on, but as you said, sounds better with no cab. block.

The only thing I was struggling with is volume levels, from one 'stage' to the next and especially between a single coil and Humbuckers. I found this (below) in Yek's How-To's, so I'm going to follow the procedure when I get home.

Thanks for all your help AND patience!! :)

4cm.jpg
 
Last edited:
That guide was meant for the Axe-FX 1. With the Axe II you can just adjust input levels and set Out 1/2 knobs to maximum. You may also want to increase boost/pad settings for lower noise. (See I/O menu section in manual for details.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom