4 Cable Method w/ Loadbox

Satch4u3

Satch4u3

Experienced
Hi guys. I have an XL+ incoming that I am planning on running in 4CM with a Friedman BE100. I have been reading up on everything I can in regards to connections and optimal signal levels and such, but I can't seem to find any one using it in the way that I plan on using it.

My current setup is a BE100 with a Suhr Reactive Load and out of the line out from the BE100 (Not the SRL) into a Torpedo Cab and direct to FOH. The idea will be to replace all of the effects in front and after, but I currently use a Wah and comp in the front of the amp and a delay after the Torpedo Cab, before it hits a Radial JDI, then to FOH. No actual cabinets on stage and monitor everything with IEM. Also probably worth noting that I do not use the BE100's effects loop in this setup as I run time based effects post everything. The BE100's effects look is awesome however.

So my question is: Would the connections be sort of similar to the standard 4CM, integrating an Axe-FX2 XL+ with this sort of setup? It's noted on the wiki that you can't combine 4CM with (internal) cab modeling. Is there any reason why? As I understand it, the connections for this setup would be Guitar >AFX2 Input > Out 2 L > BE100 Input > BE100 Line Out > Input 2 L > AFX2 Output 1 to FOH.

Thanks for any input you guys have to offer.



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4CM means that you're using the Axe for effects processor only, so you're using an actual amp and actual cab, therefore you do not want cab modeling on. That would put out a signal that is a simulated cab into an actual cab. This is generally not done, but if you like the way it sounds, you can.
 
I failed to mention that I would be only using the effects, not the amp block and only the Cab block.
 
You can however split up your signal such that the full chain is going to FOH, and using the FX loop blocks are sending effects only to the real amp and cab. I can't describe exactly how to do this, as I don't have any actual amps, but there are tutorials out there that can.
 
Satch4u3 said:
I failed to mention that I would be only using the effects, not the amp block and only the Cab block.
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I understand. This is implicit in 4CM. You are sending an effects only chain out of the Axe-FX and into the amplifier and cab. This obviates the use of an amp block or a cab block, thus you would have cab simulation off.
 
I have a feeling that if you could easily do this all inside the XL+. If you are really attached to the IRs in the 'Torpedo', you could insert it into the FX-Loop of the XL+, or 'Tone Match' them and save them as IRs to use in the Cab block.

The only reason that most 4-cable users go that route is to use there 'real' cabs. Since you are already using IEMs and going direct to FOH, you could drop the Amp, Loadbox, Torpedo, DI, Wah, and Comp.

Once you get the unit, try recreating your rig inside, and plugging your IEMs to the headphone jack to see.
 
Moke said:
I have a feeling that if you could easily do this all inside the XL+. If you are really attached to the IRs in the 'Torpedo', you could insert it into the FX-Loop of the XL+, or 'Tone Match' them and save them as IRs to use in the Cab block.

The only reason that most 4-cable users go that route is to use there 'real' cabs. Since you are already using IEMs and going direct to FOH, you could drop the Amp, Torpedo, DI, Wah, and Comp.

Once you get the unit, try recreating your rig inside, and plugging your IEMs to the headphone jack to see.
Click to expand...

My plan was to ditch the Torpedo CAB and DI from the setup and just use my BE100 and import my custom mix IR into the XL+'s Cab block and use it's effects. But I never really considered Tone Matching my current IR. That's a great idea!

In the end I will probably end up going with everything in the XL+. ;)
 
Satch4u3 said:
My plan was to ditch the Torpedo CAB and DI from the setup and just use my BE100 and import my custom mix IR into the XL+'s Cab block and use it's effects. But I never really considered Tone Matching my current IR. That's a great idea!

In the end I will probably end up going with everything in the XL+. ;)
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I think so too. The Amp modeling is crazy good. You could even do a 'live Amp Match' and 'Tone Match' your entire old rig, Amp, Loadbox, Torpedo, and DI if you wanted.
 
So I received my XL+ and hooked it up the way I described above. As expected, it works and sounds great. With two patches created: One with the Friedman BE V2 amp model and a stock IR in the CAB block and one with my BE100 connected(as described in the OP) with the FXL block and the same IR in the CAB block. Very impressed with how similar I can get them to sound and feel! So much so I am really considering going with everything in the XL+.

My only question at this point is how do I tone match my custom IR in the Torpedo CAB. That is the only missing piece for me at this point. The sound of my Torpedo CAB IR. Disclaimer: I am not using a Two Notes IR. I am using a custom mix with specific EQ applied from my Red Wirez Big Box collection. haha I have checked out the Wiki but I can't seem to find how to do this exactly. I am sure it's simple but that whole thing is lost on me completely!!

Thanks again!
 
If the IR is a wav file, you can import it into the Axe-Fx II using the 'Browser' in 'Axe-Manage Cabs' in the 'Tools' menu
 
Also has some specific EQ applied to it from the Torpedo IR mix software before I exported it to the Torpedo format.
 
BTW Moke, I purchased your Summer of 69 patch from your site a few hours ago. It’s awesome. Can’t wait to gig with it. Sounds exactly like the recordings! The pitch effect combined with the with the direct signal is genius. Well done sir!
 
Satch4u3 said:
BTW Moke, I purchased your Summer of 69 patch from your site a few hours ago. It’s awesome. Can’t wait to gig with it. Sounds exactly like the recordings! The pitch effect combined with the with the direct signal is genius. Well done sir!
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Sweet! Make sure to keep that 'Archive/Update' link for any future updates.
 
Satch4u3 said:
Hi guys. I have an XL+ incoming that I am planning on running in 4CM with a Friedman BE100. I have been reading up on everything I can in regards to connections and optimal signal levels and such, but I can't seem to find any one using it in the way that I plan on using it.

My current setup is a BE100 with a Suhr Reactive Load and out of the line out from the BE100 (Not the SRL) into a Torpedo Cab and direct to FOH. The idea will be to replace all of the effects in front and after, but I currently use a Wah and comp in the front of the amp and a delay after the Torpedo Cab, before it hits a Radial JDI, then to FOH. No actual cabinets on stage and monitor everything with IEM. Also probably worth noting that I do not use the BE100's effects loop in this setup as I run time based effects post everything. The BE100's effects look is awesome however.

So my question is: Would the connections be sort of similar to the standard 4CM, integrating an Axe-FX2 XL+ with this sort of setup? It's noted on the wiki that you can't combine 4CM with (internal) cab modeling. Is there any reason why? As I understand it, the connections for this setup would be Guitar >AFX2 Input > Out 2 L > BE100 Input > BE100 Line Out > Input 2 L > AFX2 Output 1 to FOH.

Thanks for any input you guys have to offer.



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Not really pertinent to your question but I'm curious as to why you're using the line out from the BE instead of the line out from the Suhr RL. Do you prefer the power amp simulation in the CAB over the tone of the BE's power section going into the load?
 
marshall2553 said:
Not really pertinent to your question but I'm curious as to why you're using the line out from the BE instead of the line out from the Suhr RL. Do you prefer the power amp simulation in the CAB over the tone of the BE's power section going into the load?
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No worries. I am getting the same preamp and power amp content from both line outs. I just prefer the line out from the BE100, because to my ears it's a little more punchy than the line out from the SRL. Mind you, that could totally be in my head but I do feel that I hear a small difference. I am not using the power amp modelling in the Torpedo CAB. Just my custom mixed IR with some EQ applied from Torpedo Blend (Not "Torpedo Mix" as I mentioned above).
 
Satch4u3 said:
No worries. I am getting the same preamp and power amp content from both line outs. I just prefer the line out from the BE100, because to my ears it's a little more punchy than the line out from the SRL. Mind you, that could totally be in my head but I do feel that I hear a small difference. I am not using the power amp modelling in the Torpedo CAB. Just my custom mixed IR with some EQ applied from Torpedo Blend (Not "Torpedo Mix" as I mentioned above).
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I think the line out on the BE comes straight off the preamp, so the BE's power amp isn't influencing your tone. Not that there's anything wrong with that if it sounds the best to you. I haven't tried the line out on my BE, but I really like running the line out from the Suhr RL either through an IR loader + FRFR or into a power amp + cab. The Suhr is great, it's the best load I've tried.
 
marshall2553 said:
I think the line out on the BE comes straight off the preamp, so the BE's power amp isn't influencing your tone. Not that there's anything wrong with that if it sounds the best to you. I haven't tried the line out on my BE, but I really like running the line out from the Suhr RL either through an IR loader + FRFR or into a power amp + cab. The Suhr is great, it's the best load I've tried.
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Really? I did not know that. I thought it was both the preamp and power amp coming out of that. Funny that they don't sound THAT different. Well color me embarrassed. lol *blush*

And yes! The SRL is killer. I was using the Torpedo Live as loadbox before I got the SRL. I wouldn't say there is a night and day difference but there is a difference! So it has been the best one I have tried so far as well. In the spirit of loadboxes, I am really looking forward to checking out the new one from Universal Audio. The Ox!
 
For anyone interested, I ended up figuring out the tone matching process from a video I found of Cliff explaining it... on the Wiki. I guess I never dug deep enough in my initial search. It worked like a charm! I have both the BE and HBE channels tone matched, with my Torpedo CAB connected, to where it's close enough for a live mix I feel. Brilliant! The connections were exactly like the 4CM except the patch for it is a little different than your standard 4CM preset.
 
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