2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in sight

[mortega76]

Had a wonderful time (again) at Matt's house... there were several folks that I had never met but were from the Rig-Talk forums...

Quick and to the point... the following amps where preset:

Cameron (I think) CCV-100... (I was surprised at how small it was) It sounded great, we initially couldn't turn it up very much and Matt later (about 5 minutes) found out he had a microphonic tube... I wish we could have cranked it a bit more...

Splawn (what looked like a) Quick Rod: it didn't have as much gain as the CCV-100 but it had more low end meat... very nice

Axe-fx Ultra w/ PV-1500: I had raved about how the Axe-fx (10.1) was able to sound better than a 5150 with a GEQ in the chain bumping the lows and mids a bit... well, this time around with 10.03, there was no comparison. Axe-fx hands down when compared to the 5150. The one thing that the Axe-fx didn't have that night was all the noise that all the Cameron, Splawn and 5150 had...

Diamond Nitrox: Funny because I had just heard about these amps that same more on the "Monsters of High Gain Shoot-out" thread... and I was very eager to hear this one but alas I didn't have time... I had already made plans to go watch UFC 123 and I had already been there for about 2.5 hours.

Modified Marshall (someone who was there please chime in and tell me what it was)

Engl SE: Heard it last time around but I didn't get a chance to hear it this time around...

All in all... I learned a couple of things...

1. The Axe-fx is missing one key ingredient that (I'm guessing) most tube amps have... noise. This noise is actually something that is "missing" in the tone that night.
2. The other missing ingredient was that it still needed a bit more of was tube "sizzle"...
3. Tube power is an impressive beast indeed. My Axe-fx set to just about full on the output and full on both channels was still not as loud as the tube amps set to about half... that's just crazy... I was pushing 500 watts of SS power into the power amp and it still wasn't as loud... I had to bridge the sucker and push out 1000 watts of juice before it was louder than any of the 100 watt tube amps... that's just crazy. I'm convinced I need either a 100 watt clean tube amp to push my Axe-fx or a 1000 watt per channel SS amp.
4. Mills cabs are freakin' beasts... they can handle any and all low end that the Axe-fx threw at it. My Marshall JCM900 fart out much faster than the Mills cabs did. As a matter of fact the "better than a 5150" patch sounded bad on my JCM900's but sounded awesome on the Mills cabs.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

My Axe-fx set to just about full on the output and full on both channels

Will clip the shit out of any SS amp there is. What kind of amp and speakers are you using again?

 

[rsf1977]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

yea that's nuts, i have a carvin SS poweramp pushing 560watts and I have my Ultra output at 2pm and I am not even close to it's max volume and it's as loud as any tube head.

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

My Axe-fx set to just about full on the output and full on both channels

Will clip the shit out of any SS amp there is. What kind of amp and speakers are you using again?

Peavey PV1500 into JCM900 A and B cabs with Celestion G12T- 75s... And you're right... I was lighting up like a Christmas tree just trying to keep up at ear bleeding volumes until I bridged it...

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

yea that's nuts, i have a carvin SS poweramp pushing 560watts and I have my Ultra output at 2pm and I am not even close to it's max volume and it's as loud as any tube head.

Well... The PV1500 was just as loud as the QSC GX5... So either these amps are power houses compared to the tube amps that you've put them up against or I'm going deaf... Maybe if we had a brick wall limited it might have helped...

 

[rsf1977]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

the only thing i can think that would cause you to clip that much would be you have massive low end pumping out or your axe-fx. But if that's the way you like it and your speakers haven't exploded yet then more power to you lol. Man that must be crazy loud !

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

Peavey PV1500 into JCM900 A and B cabs with Celestion G12T- 75s...

Something's wrong here. If those cabs are like the one shown here http://store.gearnut.com/majc194xca.html, then they are switch-selectable for 4 or 16 ohm impedances. The Peavey amp is 500W x 2 into 4-ohm loads, 1000W bridged into 8 ohms. You can get its maximum power in either mode with your cabs. Use two-channel mode with the cabs set to 4 ohms or bridged with the cabs set to 16 ohms and connected in parallel. In case this isn't getting across, bridge mode offers no additional power. What haven't you told us?

 

[Sixstring]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

My Axe-fx set to just about full on the output and full on both channels

Will clip the shit out of any SS amp there is. What kind of amp and speakers are you using again?

It would also depend on where he had his level settings within the preset.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

It would also depend on where he had his level settings within the preset.

He's already responded that he was indeed driving the power amp into clip.

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

Yes they are running 500 watts at 4 ohm on my cabs... But now that I think about it... Just like Matt mentioned it was only running at 300 watts at 8 ohm... Hmmmm... Damn omhages!!!!!

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

On another note... As obsurd as it may sound... I really think there should be a "Tube Noise" or "Interference" value that can be dialed in or out... because one thing that I immediately noticed was how extremely quiet the Axe-fx was when compared to all the tube amps that I heard... But that noise added something to the overall sound.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

Yes they are running 500 watts at 4 ohm on my cabs

So how did you set the cabs up for bridged operation? If you left them at 4 ohms and connected them in parallel, you were seriously overloading (by 4:1) the power amp. The amp would see 2 ohms, but it's only rated to drive 8.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

On another note... As obsurd as it may sound... I really think there should be a "Tube Noise" or "Interference" value

Only someone who hasn't lived with tube amps for a lifetime would see that noise as a "feature." Try putting down quality tracks in a recording session or getting a decent signal to FOH in a venue with a really revealing PA, and you'll begin to appreciate the lower (but not zero) noise level of the Axe-Fx.

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

Yes they are running 500 watts at 4 ohm on my cabs

So how did you set the cabs up for bridged operation? If you left them at 4 ohms and connected them in parallel, you were seriously overloading (by 4:1) the power amp. The amp would see 2 ohms, but it's only rated to drive 8.

I can see how this would get confusing because even I was confused... On my setup I am running two cabs at 500 watts at 4 ohm each. During the "amp fest" it automatically set itself up for 300 watts at 8 ohm... I mistakenly thought the cab was a 4 ohm cab... Sorry for the confusion... And I guess that answers why it wasn't loud enough...

 

[mortega76]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

On another note... As obsurd as it may sound... I really think there should be a "Tube Noise" or "Interference" value

Only someone who hasn't lived with tube amps for a lifetime would see that noise as a "feature." Try putting down quality tracks in a recording session or getting a decent signal to FOH in a venue with a really revealing PA, and you'll begin to appreciate the lower (but not zero) noise level of the Axe-Fx.

It was so surprising how quiet it was when compared to the three tube amps I heard... But it still added "something" to the overall depth of the sound.... That's why I would like to have it a value we could set from zero to 10.0.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

On my setup I am running two cabs at 500 watts at 4 ohm each.

IOW, you're using the amp in two-channel ("stereo") mode.

During the "amp fest" it automatically set itself up for 300 watts at 8 ohm.

Were you using your cabs or someone else's? The amp doesn't "automatically" do anything. The amount of power it can provide depends on the impedance it sees. If you run it in "stereo" with a 4-ohm cab connected to each channel, it will produce 500 watts per channel.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

It was so surprising how quiet it was when compared to the three tube amps I heard... But it still added "something" to the overall depth of the sound....

That "something" is called "noise." I've never once in 45+ years of playing music ever heard a guitar player, recordist, or sound guy express a desire to hear more noise from an amp. That's just silly. My advice: get used to it. It really is an improvement.

 

[yek]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

It was so surprising how quiet it was when compared to the three tube amps I heard... But it still added "something" to the overall depth of the sound....

That "something" is called "noise." I've never once in 45+ years of playing music ever heard a guitar player, recordist, or sound guy express a desire to hear more noise from an amp. That's just silly. My advice: get used to it. It really is an improvement.

+1

 

[Rolandmangrove]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

I have my Axe FX Ultra for just 2 week now. First I tried the factory presets and soon I started to build my own sounds. I did also download all the sounds from axe exchange and the red wirez cabs. I'm still in the proces of discovering and try out from cabs to programming my FCB 1010. With the axe editor editing works very smooth and I think I know for 70% how everything works but of course have a lot to discover (all those cabs and possibilties to mix them!). It all sounds so amazing good that most of the time when I found a new sound I play and forget that I am learning to use a new unit....!

At this moment I have a few clean and crunch sounds (blackface) I like very much for direct recording. I also have 1 leadsound (Usa1 with marshall red wirez cabs) I like very much. This weekend I had a gig at the Boerderij Zoetermeer (Holland) and I played my H&K duotone tube amp with 4x12 cab. Most of the guitar sound I heard was from the stagemonitor and I started to question what a real tube amp adds live. Monday I could compare my H&K tube with 4x12 cab at my homestudio with the axe fx. I played the axe through 2 x 350 watt HK powered FRFR. First I compared H&K Duotone clean with axe clean. After some tweaking the sound was not only very close but using different amps/cabs on the axe I liked a lot of sounds more! So if the axe sounds that good on PA and the H&K Duotone is miced during a gig I believe the axe direct on PA sounds much better than a tube amp with sm 57!

And that's only the amp/cab. The effect's and routings on the axe are top notch. I compared them to my lexicon mpx g2 and the axe outperforms it. I am a real soundfreak (guitar set up and high end audio) and I like the way you can make complex delays (reverse!) combined with multiple chorus and pitch . I feel I have only just discovered 1 % of all the possibilities (amps, cabs, amps and cabs settings etc). I've read a lot about the axe on this forum and axe wiki and it convinced me to buy it. I printed a lot from axe wiki and every day I try to learn something new. I guess I will invest a lot of time on the axe but that's only fun. A great machine and the best investment in guitar gear I did in years. I'm selling my lexicon. If I can find and tweak some good leadtones I probably sell my HK duotone. And as stated before: no noise (perfect noisgate!). I'm very impressed.

 

[zack]

Re: 2nd Mini-amp fest with Axe-fx as the only "non-amp" in s

It was so surprising how quiet it was when compared to the three tube amps I heard... But it still added "something" to the overall depth of the sound....

That "something" is called "noise." I've never once in 45+ years of playing music ever heard a guitar player, recordist, or sound guy express a desire to hear more noise from an amp. That's just silly. My advice: get used to it. It really is an improvement.

+1

+2 !

Tell you what though - if we could have an extra switch that simulates a spring reverb 'clang' when you drop or hit the axe-fx, that would be much appreciated.