21st Century Pickups for the Modern Guitar Player

djowel,

Can I make a suggestion: remove the "high definition" terminology. It comes across as nothing but marketing jargon at this point, and in the realm of pickups, you're going to be selling to people that aren't as in the dark about such things, so, honestly, it's going to do harm to the amount of interest right off the bat.
 
Does it seem fishy to anyone else that within hours of first mention of this product, two figureheads for the company are chatting it up on this forum?
 
Hello, I'm a newcomer in this group. I'm the designer of the Cycfi Neo Aura pickup. I'll help Bill answer some questions.

@Womac911, the magnets are very small: 4.7mm x 4.7mm and there's only 6 of them aligned 90 perpendicular to the strings. The second coil do not have magnets. We made sure through extensive testing that we don't have what's called "Stratitis" or excess string pull.

@reclavea, there's no such thing as "completely noise-free". We've tested a lot of pickups and there is noise in various degrees. Push the gain up to very high levels, move in front of a stage light or any transformer, or even your desktop computer, and you'll get noise even from humbuckers. Here are some spectrum graphs: Singles or Doubles? | Cycfi Research in an early tests with our polyphonic pickups. Even the very quiet active EMGs still have noise in them. Low-impedance pickups are less susceptible to noise (an order of a magnitude lower noise than high impedance "passive" pickups). But dual coils make them even better. It's not just a marketing gimmick (I am not a vintage rock-n-roll traditionalist). We've done extensive tests that show that double coils still matter even in active pickups. As for phase differences, you are right. Traditional humbuckers, having a wide aperture, have phase differences in both coils. But no, humbuckers do not have such a weak output. Passive humbuckers have higher output than single coils. They do have a mellower sound due to the phase shift you mention (some high frequencies cancel out). The mellower tone is also a result of the higher inductance (more windings). Humbuckers have a resonance peak at about 2kHz while single coils have it in the 4-5kHz range.

@Sixstring, it is meant for external processing. We do however have an on board resonant filter which you can use to dial-in a frequency response (Freq and Q). Technically speaking, a pickup as an audio voltage source plus second-order lowpass filter (BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups).

@Hyper Planet, I'd say it's a perfect match for the Axe-Fx.

@dr bonkers, we will provide wiring diagrams very soon. The supply power via trs guitar cable is an interesting idea. That is a very viable solution!

--Joel
Cycfi Research | Infinity in a Day

Welcome to the forum

Did you tested your pickups with the Axe-Fx ll ?
I read the info on your web site and listened to your samples, All the things I could understand is you tried to have minimum noise on your pickups, used an SMT board in order to do it and pre-amp as well, also I found there is some switch on your pickups that we can select it between difference situation of playing things, am I right ?

the most important point that I couldn't understand is about using HD word on your pickups, first of all I read all the info on your web site and mostly talked about low noise and low impedance, and beyond the human hearing from 20Hz to 20kHz, how can we hear it sounds that's beyond of human hearing ability ??
this things are all around my head and aslo my doubts about your HD Pickups, I'm just trying to bring a good feeling with your product

Best Regards
 
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SUP? :D I do see where your going though,,,,that would be a cool feature,,,dial up a Duncan Pearly Gates response,,,then dial up a Bareknucle Warpig,,then a 60's strat tone,,,,, would be sweet for sure.


MOSHON
DAVE

yup! that's what I'm looking for... kind of like a line 6 variax deal but with Fishmen Fluence type of tech!
 
Hello, I'm a newcomer in this group. I'm the designer of the Cycfi Neo Aura pickup.

Hi Joel (and Bill),

I checked out your website and found some interesting reads on there, particularly the stuff on virtual pickups, that I'll have to bookmark and read more thoroughly.

Very interesting to see you embrace Open Source hardware/software and the hacker community with your projects and have software contributions to the C++ Boost Libraries; I've been doing a deep dive into C++ using an open frameworks project called Cinder (a 'creative coding' framework) for audio visualization which uses a lot of Boost functionality...this is all very fun stuff.

Really cool pickups; I find them intriguing and am sure to be checking them out (and your site) more...

Oh, I really liked the Automatic String Picker here Pickup Testing | Cycfi Research heh...
 
Hello, I'm a newcomer in this group. I'm the designer of the Cycfi Neo Aura pickup. I'll help Bill answer some questions.
...........
@reclavea, there's no such thing as "completely noise-free". We've tested a lot of pickups and there is noise in various degrees. Push the gain up to very high levels, move in front of a stage light or any transformer, or even your desktop computer, and you'll get noise even from humbuckers. ..........Traditional humbuckers, having a wide aperture, have phase differences in both coils. But no, humbuckers do not have such a weak output.

Aescher:
Not to disrespect other manufacturers, but virtually ALL electromagnetic pickups in the industry to date
(other than X Series pickups) since the late 1920s, use the same crude manufacturing methods and materials

The finewire is typically wound onto a rectangular bobbin with a radius at each end,
and long straight loose strands on each side.

Even pickups of this type which are 'potted' are still relatively loose and act as 'near perfect antennae'!
The core magnets are all extremely weak, often only magnetised steel rods, with very poor inductive coil coupling (due to the bobbin),
and very low flux density, especially compared to Neodymium, which has the highest flux density (in Tesla) and highest energy product in Joule/mm³
of Any Magnetic Material. Neodymium allows massive miniaturisation of EM transducers, with massively increased output.

The X coils have a 10 mm Ø x 3 mm T solid disk coilform of tightly wound extremely fine wire, which makes the worst possible antennae,
The coilform-core is not only rock solid, but entombed in a solid cast acrylic slab, which makes the coils impervious to microphonics.

Many guitar pickups are so microphonic, you could use them as stage mics!

Nothing is Absolutely noise free. This is so obvious that it's not even worth mentioning.
Humbuckers were never claimed to be noise free - they are simply more hum supressive than common single coil pickups.

Inductive EMI interference from stage lighting and transformers is not the same thing as RFI.
coils which are absolutely immune to EMI could not even function as transducers!

Most modern amplifiers no longer use big leaky transformers.
and any player daft enough to stand in front of a high voltage AC source will get what they are asking for.

The X Series coils are the most accurately made in the industry,
and far more inductive with a much higher voltage output than any other passive pickups.

Due to a proprietary winding method and the highest grade materials - Polysol insulated oxygen free copper finewire
manufactured for Æ by Elektrosola in Germany, with solvent welded coil forms,
directly wound onto N52 Neodymium cores. The X coils are 100% free of microphonics, unlike most common pickups.
The solvent welded coils are absolutely solid, RFI screened and do not act as antennae.

These pickups are extremely fat and punchy and have a very wide frequency response with very low THD.

X coils are also produced in 9999 purity silver finewire - manufactured for Æ by Elektrosola in Schweiz.
which is 7% more conductive than copper and has even better high frequency response."



I am in the process to evaluate the Aescher system and pups and post my review and video upon install.

I do find your pickup approach fascinating! Yet have always had reservations with active systems. Not a EMG fan at all and even replaced all the EMGs in my vintage GL Steinbergers!

Either way technology is moving along quite nicely! Finally
 
So this is to be used as a flat response pickup for EQ tone shaping?

If so, how are you going to adress the interaction of the magnetic pickup with the strings? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pickup-guitar system isn't just one directional: The magnetic field of the pickup influences the string as much as the string influences the magnetic field of the pickup. It's simple physics (principle of conservation of energy: the electrical energy created through the pickups drains from the kinetic energy of the string oscillation). Even if you EQ-shape the pickup response to match a certain pickup-type, it won't change the way the string responds to the magnetic field.

You can already "tone match" your guitar pickups to any other pickup ... by just tonematching it to any other pickup. A flat response pickup is not neccesary for this. Will it sound like a real pickup? Hell no. Will a flat response pickup sound like a real pickup when tonematched? Nope, because the problem remains the same.
 
Here's an advert from 1929 for the first line of electric guitars on the market.



This year - the electromagnetic string pickup is 86 years old.
and in all that time, the technology in the industry has barely advanced at all.

I think divided pickup technology is one effective way to advance.
 
djowel,

Can I make a suggestion: remove the "high definition" terminology. It comes across as nothing but marketing jargon at this point, and in the realm of pickups, you're going to be selling to people that aren't as in the dark about such things, so, honestly, it's going to do harm to the amount of interest right off the bat.

Thank you for the suggestion. We are highly considering changing the term to something else.
 
Hi Joel (and Bill),

I checked out your website and found some interesting reads on there, particularly the stuff on virtual pickups, that I'll have to bookmark and read more thoroughly.

Very interesting to see you embrace Open Source hardware/software and the hacker community with your projects and have software contributions to the C++ Boost Libraries; I've been doing a deep dive into C++ using an open frameworks project called Cinder (a 'creative coding' framework) for audio visualization which uses a lot of Boost functionality...this is all very fun stuff.

Really cool pickups; I find them intriguing and am sure to be checking them out (and your site) more...

Oh, I really liked the Automatic String Picker here Pickup Testing | Cycfi Research heh...

Thank you, @Stratoblaster. Yes, I've been an advocate of Open Source since the late 90s and I've authored a few of the Boost C++ Libraries. I'm glad you liked the articles on virtual pickups and the Automatic String Picker.
 
So this is to be used as a flat response pickup for EQ tone shaping?

If so, how are you going to adress the interaction of the magnetic pickup with the strings? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the pickup-guitar system isn't just one directional: The magnetic field of the pickup influences the string as much as the string influences the magnetic field of the pickup. It's simple physics (principle of conservation of energy: the electrical energy created through the pickups drains from the kinetic energy of the string oscillation). Even if you EQ-shape the pickup response to match a certain pickup-type, it won't change the way the string responds to the magnetic field.

Correct.

You can already "tone match" your guitar pickups to any other pickup ... by just tonematching it to any other pickup. A flat response pickup is not neccesary for this. Will it sound like a real pickup? Hell no. Will a flat response pickup sound like a real pickup when tonematched? Nope, because the problem remains the same.

To a certain extent extent, yes. But keep in mind that the response of a pickup is -12dB per octave. So, for instance, a typical humbucker with rolloff at 2kHz (typical) will be down 12db at 4kHz, -24db at 8kHz and -36dB at 16kHz. Hence you'll have to significantly boost the highs, including the noise, to get a somewhat flat response to begin with.
 
Does it seem fishy to anyone else that within hours of first mention of this product, two figureheads for the company are chatting it up on this forum?

No. This isn't incredibly out of the ordinary (especially for a product that has an easily searchable name). I don't think they'd deny that they came to the realization that their product was being discussed here and specifically made their way over to drum up more support by answering questions and such.
 
Hello, I'm a newcomer in this group. I'm the designer of the Cycfi Neo Aura pickup. I'll help Bill answer some questions.

@Womac911, the magnets are very small: 4.7mm x 4.7mm and there's only 6 of them aligned 90 perpendicular to the strings. The second coil does not have magnets. We made sure through extensive testing that we don't have what's called "Stratitis" or excess string pull.

Cool, thanks. Here's another neodumium question.

Are the magnets licensed neodymium?
 
No. This isn't incredibly out of the ordinary (especially for a product that has an easily searchable name). I don't think they'd deny that they came to the realization that their product was being discussed here and specifically made their way over to drum up more support by answering questions and such.

When someone clicks an external link to the site, it gets into the site's stats and analytics, including the source of the link (e.g. this forum). That's fairly standard with Wordpress sites such as ours. There's no conspiracy here, promise :)
 
To a certain extent extent, yes. But keep in mind that the response of a pickup is -12dB per octave. So, for instance, a typical humbucker with rolloff at 2kHz (typical) will be down 12db at 4kHz, -24db at 8kHz and -36dB at 16kHz. Hence you'll have to significantly boost the highs, including the noise, to get a somewhat flat response to begin with.
Btw, thanks for answering critical questions... shows a fair-and-square business model which I think many people here approve.

I can see the advantage of a flat response pickup when it comes to tone-matching other pickups. After all, you can't EQ something in that isn't there to begin with. However, do you have something in mind to fix the recursion problem with your pickup (and possible future products)?

I see this as a transitioning technology between regular pickups and full-blown modelling pickups, which is why I'm interested in this, but not a potential customer yet. I can see the potential of this getting big if you can fix the recursion problem, so I'm curious about your strategy.
 
Btw, thanks for answering critical questions... shows a fair-and-square business model which I think many people here approve.

I can see the advantage of a flat response pickup when it comes to tone-matching other pickups. After all, you can't EQ something in that isn't there to begin with. However, do you have something in mind to fix the recursion problem with your pickup (and possible future products)?

I see this as a transitioning technology between regular pickups and full-blown modelling pickups, which is why I'm interested in this, but not a potential customer yet. I can see the potential of this getting big if you can fix the recursion problem, so I'm curious about your strategy.

Thank you, Zwiebelchen. Could you lease educate me on the "recursion problem" you mention?
 
Thank you, Zwiebelchen. Could you lease educate me on the "recursion problem" you mention?
The oscillation of the string periodically changes the magnetic field and causes an electrical current. This can be EQ'ed.
However, the electric current induced also influences the magnetic field, which, again, influences the string. That's what I meant with recursion. The string affects the pickup and the pickup affects the string.
In order to create different pickup models, you'd have to artifically create the change in magnetic field due to the current induced by the pickup that you want to model, so that you can emulate both directions, not just one.
 
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