2 way communication

trancegodz

Fractal Fanatic
I would like to understand more about the lack of 2 way communication issue between the Axe FXIII and MFC-101. Could someone explain it to me? Is it because of something missing in the MFC-101 or because of something changed or missing in the Axe FXIII?

Is this something that can be fixed in an Axe FXIII firmware update in the future, or is that impossible? Not complaining, just trying to understand the lack of 2 way communication issue I've seen mentioned on the forum.
 
It’s. Because. It’s. Not. Meant. For. The. MFC.

Everyone bitched about apple switching from the 32 pin to the lightning connecter at first too.
 
That's not helpful and doesn't answer my questions.
Would something need to be changed on the MFC-101, or would something need to be changed on the Axe FXIII to have two way communication? Is this even possible, or is it not possible. Anyone?

I am happy that I have my Axe FXIII and MFC-101 working well together doing all the things I did with the Axe FXII, except when pressing IAs to turn on and off effects the light may be on when an effect is off, or off when an effect is on. I set up 5 linked IAs for scenes and there's no problem at all with the lights syncing up when changing scenes. From some of the posts I'd read I thought it wouldn't work at all, but it does.

Is that all "no 2 way communication" means? That the lights don't sync up, and the names of the presets don't show up, or is there more to it?
 
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Would something need to be changed on the MFC-101, or would something need to be changed on the Axe FXIII to have two way communication? Is this even possible, or is it not possible.
The answer to all your questions above is: yes.
 
The answer to all your questions above is: yes.

Thanks for your answer, but how is it both possible and not possible. Does that mean its possible, but they are not going to ever do anything about it?

Still not sure I know exactly what "no 2 way communication" means.
 
Standard MIDI just sends a few things. It has a capability to add proprietary communication protocols to go beyond that, as long as both sides know what to do with it. The Axe III needed to change that protocol to support new features. The MFC has no room to add an additional protocol. Thus, you're limited to standard MIDI only.

The MFC's firmware hasn't been touched in over 3 years now. While it might (or might not) be possible for them to fork it and provide a separate firmware that has the Axe II protocol and features stripped out to make room for the Axe III protocol and features, they've decided for business and engineering reasons not to do that. It makes sense to focus their engineering resources on the new controller that will be better integrated with the III than the MFC ever could be, even if they were to update it.
 
Thanks for your answer, but how is it both possible and not possible. Does that mean its possible, but they are not going to ever do anything about it?
Apologies. It was just the answer to your one question. ;) Both the III and the MFC would need to change.
 
Its pretty poor actually. The main reason why I havent got - and dont intend (at present) to get an AFX3 is the lack of MFDC 2 way support.

1. My old Rocktron All Access had the same functionality that the MFC does with the AFX3 - which does rangle a little.

2. The new controllers dont have enough buttons for my use - so Id have to stick with the MFC, yet need the 2 way comms

3. Problably the biggest - I can barely justify (and would struggle) to afford the AF3 at present, the added cost of upgrading the controller at the same time makes it un-achievable for me.

As an AFX user since 2008, it pains me greatly. Its probably the only bad choice Fractal have made in all that time.
 
I was going to buy a second Axe FXII literally the day the Axe FXIII was announced. I'd come downstairs and turned on the computer with the intent to order a second Axe FXII when I saw the Axe FXIII announcement. I have to admit that when I got on the waitlist Axe FXIII the day it was announced I totally thought it would work with my MFC-101 in the same manner as it had with the Axe FXII, and didn't expect to have to buy a new controller for it. By the time my name came up I had seen some posts about Axe FX Mode not working and the 2 way communication problem, but I didn't really know what all that meant. It did make me consider not getting an Axe FXIII, but I went on and bought one. I am only now slowly starting to understand what not having 2 way communication means.

Are there any other midi controllers that would currently work with the Axe FXIII and have the same kind of 2 way communication MFC-101 users were used to with the Axe FXII, or was the Axe FXIII designed so it would only fully work right with the FC pedals?
 
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Are there any other midi controllers that would currently work with the Axe FXIII and have the same kind of 2 way communication MFC-101 users were used to with the Axe FXII, or was the Axe FXIII designed so it would only fully work right with the FC pedals?

There is no controller that syncs with the Axe. Eventually, I expect the RJM pedals and the Liquidfoot pedals will sync. Down the line, others might as well but it will require firmware changes by the manufacturer and Fractal to share their communication protocol. It doesn't look like they have done the latter yet, but then the Fractal FC pedals are still being developed so that might be a work in progress still.

Austin
 
addressing the OP, it's not about fixing something... Axe III and MFC do 2-way communication. MFC does so via axefx mode (standard, ultra, II, xl, xl+) there's no axefx III option available because there's not enough memory in the MFC. additionally, the axefx III uses faslink II, a new protocol
 
There are a few things involved with 2 way communication. One of the benefits is that you only have to do minimal programming the MFC-101. It will pull a lot of information from the AXE FX, namely preset names and effect states. What that means is, if you have a Drive Block and a Delay Block in a preset, and your Drive Block is on and the Delay Block off in the saved preset, the MFC-101 will automatically know this. And if those settings are opposite in a different preset, it will automatically know this as well without the need to program this information into the MFC-101.

Now, one of the things that makes the MFC-101 a very useful midi controller, even without the 2-way communication, is that you can manually program in this information. Not all midi controllers allow you to do this, and it’s very important to understand this difference. I’ll see if I can explain this so it makes sense. I used to use a Yamaha midi controller that did allow you to do presets and IA’s. What it did not allow you to do would be program in what is called the “Initial State” of an effect. So if I would turn on my Drive Block, the light would go on for the corresponding switch. Then, if I selected a different patch, and it was one where the Drive Block was off, my Yamaha midi controller would still have the light on for the switch, because it carried over from my last action with it and it wouldn’t reset. What would happen then is the first time I would step on the switch, it would send the information to turn the block off, but the block would already be off. The second time I would step on it, it would send the information to turn the block on. This resulted in needing to step on a switch twice in some cases in order to turn an effect on or off.

This is the advantage with the MFC-101, regardless of 2-way communication, that puts it ahead of some midi controllers. You can set the initial effect state. So If I change from a preset where the Drive Block is on to one where the Drive Block is off, the light will change accordingly, and the switch will be set to send the correct information Again, this will work even without 2-way communication. The difference is that you need to manually program this into the MFC. But it’s very easy to do, and you only have to do it once. If you do make a change to a preset with the initial state of an effect block, you will need to manually make that change on the MFC-101 as well. It won’t automatically know you made a change to a preset, that’s what the 2-way communication does. So in this specific regard, the MFC-101 will still work, with a little extra programming.

The other thing that 2-way communication allows for is any real time info that would need to be sent to the MFC-101. This would be for things like seeing the tuner displayed on the MFC-101, or seeing a tap tempo light flash in the actual tempo the patch is set to. These things will not work without 2-way communication.

The MFC-101 is still a very useful midi controller without the 2-way communication. And so are some of the other controllers, like the Liquid Foot or the Mastermind GT. Many people have indicated that they have their controllers up and running with the Axe Fx III with 90% functionality. In my case, I actually never used the tuner on the MFC-101 anyway. So as much as I am interested in the new controller, I may not get it. I’ve used the MFC-101 for the past 5 years with the Axe Fx II. The way I have it set right now, it’s functioning 100% the same way with my Axe Fx III as it did with the Axe Fx II.

If you have any questions or problems with getting the MFC-101 set up, don’t hesitate to post questions. I got a lot of questions answered here on the forum when I first started setting mine up, and it didn’t take long to set it up. Not long at all.
 
Well... Maybe MFC101 could't support all of AXE FX products, but if FAS made a new firmware to MFC just to work with AXE FX III, excluding the hability to work with other products in order to maximize the room?
If AXE FX III has so much power, why didn't insert on it the option to use FASLINK I protocol?
I intent to buy an AXE FX III as soon as possible, but I really didn't wanna have to buy another foot controller!
 
If you have any questions or problems with getting the MFC-101 set up, don’t hesitate to post questions. I got a lot of questions answered here on the forum when I first started setting mine up, and it didn’t take long to set it up. Not long at all.

Thank you so much for the detailed post! It really helped me and I appreciate it.

I actually have my Axe FXIII and MFC-101 working pretty well with each other, with a few exceptions:
1. I can change presets fine, but if I step on the bank up button the light will go on and stay on even if I step on the down bank button next. Now both lights are on and stay on no natter what. Stepping on either one won't turn either light off.
2. I set up IAs 11 through 15 for the Looper functions. Everything works, but if you step on any of the IAs the light will go on and stay on even if you hit another IA. Everything works but it gets really confusing when using the looper.
3. So to try and correct this I tried setting up IA switches 11 through 15 as a Linked set. This did not work at all. I could step on the record button and recording would start, but if I stepped on any other button everything just stopped. No sound at all, even if I stepped on the record button again. Only one light would be on at a time, but nothing worked in the Looper. I unlinked the 5 IAs and all of the looper functions worked right again, with the exception of the lights not syncing.
4. I linked the 5 IAs I am using for scenes and set it to scene revert and only one light is on for the scene I selected. So that works perfectly. I can change scenes fine and whatever effects I had turned on in that scene are on when I select that scene. So scenes seem to work normally, with the exception of the lights not reflecting what individual effects are on correctly.
5. I have not yet tried to use the reveal button to try the Looper buttons from there, since I set up IAs 11 through 15 to control the looper functions.
6. Something happened last night that freaked me out until I figured out why it was happening. Normally when I selected a preset from the front panel of the Axe FXIII I paged over to presets and selected it from there just scrolling up and down. I tried the alphabetically ordered list for the first time last night and selected a preset that way. After doing that when I tried to change presets on the MFC-101 everything was all mixed up. Preset 1 was not preset 1 any more. Preset 1 might be say 121 and preset 2 might be 384, etc. Totally scrambled up. I went back to the front panel and paged over to presets and unselected the Alphabetically ordered list and everything went back to normal when selecting presets from the MFC-101.
7. The names of the presets don't show up on the MFC-101.

The above are the only issues I have run into so far. I've been trying to figure out which can be fixed by programming the MFC-101 in the right manner, and which cannot.
 
The red/yellow/No light system doesn't work. So if a block is in a present it has different colour led if it's on or off, with no led if the effect isn't present.

This function is the biggie for me.

I can save initial states and patch named manually which is a pain but can be done.
 
1. I can change presets fine, but if I step on the bank up button the light will go on and stay on even if I step on the down bank button next. Now both lights are on and stay on no natter what. Stepping on either one won't turn either light off.

I haven't run into that. I'll take a look when I get home just to see if it's something I just didn't notice before. If it's not happening to me, I'll have to figure what setting I have that's different than yours. I did run into a thing where when I stepped on an IA switch, the Edit light came on. I think it's because that's how you can set the initial state. If you hit Edit again, it will save the IA states. I did find where you can turn the edit switch off so it doesn't do that. Maybe there is a similar setting for the bank switches?

2. I set up IAs 11 through 15 for the Looper functions. Everything works, but if you step on any of the IAs the light will go on and stay on even if you hit another IA. Everything works but it gets really confusing when using the looper.

I haven't used the looper. I'll take a look at that and see if anything jumps out at me.

4. I linked the 5 IAs I am using for scenes and set it to scene revert and only one light is on for the scene I selected. So that works perfectly. I can change scenes fine and whatever effects I had turned on in that scene are on when I select that scene. So scenes seem to work normally, with the exception of the lights not reflecting what individual effects are on correctly.

Admittedly, I haven't used Scenes either. It sounds like you got a lot of it figured out. I know others have said that effect states between Scenes is an issue without the 2-way communication. So this may be one of those unfortunate things lost without the 2-way communication. Let's see if anyone else can chime in that has more experience with it.

6. Something happened last night that freaked me out until I figured out why it was happening. Normally when I selected a preset from the front panel of the Axe FXIII I paged over to presets and selected it from there just scrolling up and down. I tried the alphabetically ordered list for the first time last night and selected a preset that way. After doing that when I tried to change presets on the MFC-101 everything was all mixed up. Preset 1 was not preset 1 any more. Preset 1 might be say 121 and preset 2 might be 384, etc. Totally scrambled up. I went back to the front panel and paged over to presets and unselected the Alphabetically ordered list and everything went back to normal when selecting presets from the MFC-101.

I do also know that another thing lost without the 2-way communication is that the MFC-101 won't follow the Axe Fx. So if you change a preset on the front panel, the MFC will stay on the old preset. I can see where similar confusion can happen if you switch how the presets are sorted.

7. The names of the presets don't show up on the MFC-101.

You will have to manually name them. Yes, it can be a pain. I used MFC-Edit to name them, which did make it easier to do, but it is a paid program. I happened to already own it prior to buying the Axe Fx III. You can find it on the Fractal site. I think it's a $30 program, so not too bad. Most things it does can be done without the editor, it's just clunkier. It looks like Section 11, Page 41, in the MFC-101 manual goes over setting names directly on the MFC.
 
Thanks again! I bought the MFC-Edit and it is going to be a big help in trying to figure out how to program the MFC-101. Just seeing everything laid out as it is in MFC-Edit helped me greatly.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

Concerning the Axe FXIII with the MFC-101 I''m adding to that prayer, "and the knowledge of how to change the things I can".
Thanks for helping me gain more knowledge on this subject.
 
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If you use MFC presets to select scenes you can store an initial IA state and name for each. This allows IA states to match, assuming scene revert is on.

1. Set bank size to number of desired scenes.

2. Set PC of first preset in each bank to recall desired Axe-FX preset. Disable PC on Axe-FX channel for other presets in bank.

3. Configure as many internal CCs as necessary to recall scenes 2+ with "on" states. "Off" states should send no value.

4. In remaining presets of each bank, set one internal CC on to recall intended scene.

5. Set & save IA states of each MFC preset to match Axe-FX scenes.

Remember that each MFC preset can have an alternate preset. This could be as simple as one extra scene instantly available from any other. Or you can plan whatever works for a tune, which could be something like 5 scene switches for the most common sounds, scenes 6-6-7-7-8 as alternates for 1-2-3-4-5.
 
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