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2 amp / 2 Cab Limit on Axe-Fx III ? Why ?

AlGrenadine

Axe-Master
Vendor
i am 100% not saying that at all.


what exactly did i say?

here's one thing:

"I can see people with 3 guitarists plugged into one Axe3 doing this. Or 2 guitar 1 bass. Or the synth, guitar, piezo guy. I personally could use 2 amp blocks for clean/dirty morphing and the 3rd for my acoustic guitar signal for different flavors. There is that “amp as a drive pedal” thing too.

I don’t see majority of users doing it, but with the capability, some will always find a way to cram it in there."

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/three-amp-blocks.141345/#post-1674839
That's what i feel when i see your post about that, i have no time to search your answers but you kn
i was responding to NeoSound and then got attacked by 2 people :''''''''''(
Under attack ^^
Ok, too much time lost here
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
Nicely said, very nice! Seems everyone forgets that word, simultaneously, which is the true limit. If you need more than two amps at the same time then me thinks you are but compensating for a shortage of skill or talent. And if it really is that big of a deal buy TWO Axe-FX III, and then you can have four amps simultaneously!!

wine-glass_1f377.png

It’s quite possible that I compensate for lack of skill and talent, but I also have to worry about weight and size and cost of gear in my rack, unfortunately.

That, and the audio gap when switching channels annoys me for whatever reason. It probably shouldn’t, but it does.
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
um, did i lock the last one? or any others?

I shouldn’t have written it. I did, then decided I shouldn’t post it.

But then I wrote a reply to another comment, the forum kept the draft and it stayed.

Just ignore that stuff please.
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic

Yes, that post doesn’t say anything about whether this was ever implemented. That’s an obvious thing - you increase DSP consumption by increasing the number of blocks, you have to save somewhere, oversampling is the most obvious candidate. That this is the trade off was stated by Cliff way earlier, and I think more than on one occasion, and he rightfully prides the III’s aliasing performance.

There were some ideas floating around that maybe Cliff had a way to do it without sacrificing oversampling, but I personally think that’s just unrealistic, and these ideas to my knowledge aren’t based on anything Cliff ever said about it.

Literally, he says he hasn’t implemented it. Not “I tried, it didn’t work”. Just that he hasn’t, for reasons he has been stating all the time.
 

chris

Legend!
Literally, he says he hasn’t implemented it. Not “I tried, it didn’t work”. Just that he hasn’t, for reasons he has been stating all the time.
pretty sure cliff doesn't type out essays describing every single thing that he's tried. judging from how he communicates historically, this probably means he's tried it and thinks it's not good enough for public release, or something he doesn't want representing his creation.

he released the Axe2 with 2 amp blocks, where using both reduces the sound quality. if i TRIED to hear it, i could. but in practice, i didn't hear a difference at all.

it would be great to have 3 amp blocks. if the drop in quality is even the same as the Axe2's drop, i personally would find that acceptable.

but i also trust cliff's judgment and realize that this is his creation.
 

notalemming

Fractal Fanatic
Yes, that post doesn’t say anything about whether this was ever implemented. That’s an obvious thing - you increase DSP consumption by increasing the number of blocks, you have to save somewhere, oversampling is the most obvious candidate. That this is the trade off was stated by Cliff way earlier, and I think more than on one occasion, and he rightfully prides the III’s aliasing performance.

There were some ideas floating around that maybe Cliff had a way to do it without sacrificing oversampling, but I personally think that’s just unrealistic, and these ideas to my knowledge aren’t based on anything Cliff ever said about it.

Literally, he says he hasn’t implemented it. Not “I tried, it didn’t work”. Just that he hasn’t, for reasons he has been stating all the time.
He initially brought up the idea in that thread & then said it would be detrimental to the sound.Do you really think he didn't write the code & try it out? It sounds like it was implemented, at least on his Axe & he decided no. What else do you need?
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
pretty sure cliff doesn't type out essays describing every single thing that he's tried. judging from how he communicates historically, this probably means he's tried it and thinks it's not good enough for public release, or something he doesn't want representing his creation.

Maybe that’s the case, but there’s absolutely no evidence that indicates it is apart from your interpretation. Mine is - he never really liked the idea because he doesn’t see a problem with two blocks and considers even minor loss of quality too high a price for a minor benefit. And he has more interesting things to do.

It’s all speculation.
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
He initially brought up the idea in that thread & then said it would be detrimental to the sound.

This idea was brought before the thread appeared and then he said the same thing.

In fact, it’s a very obvious thing. He doesn’t need to try anything to know what less oversampling does to Ares models, he has that in Axe-FX II.
 

AlGrenadine

Axe-Master
Vendor
An hypothesis : if amp blocks are constrained to one of the two cores, maybe that's what is limiting amps processing to 2 instances at actual quality.
Otherwise, i can't see a reason as the whole cpu usage lets think there's still power available for this (of course, at the detrimental of effects)
 

notalemming

Fractal Fanatic
This idea was brought before the thread appeared and then he said the same thing.

In fact, it’s a very obvious thing. He doesn’t need to try anything to know what less oversampling does to Ares models, he has that in Axe-FX II.
If he knew it would cause less oversampling, why would he start a thread about it, including a poll, only to say it would be detrimental to the sound much later. Doesn't make sense. Bottom line, it's his decision, he said no. Again, what else do you need? Personally, I don't care. I have never needed 2 amps (in real life or modeling), let alone 3:eek:
 

chris

Legend!
he never really liked the idea because he doesn’t see a problem with two blocks
well to go back to something i believe you (and many others) said... why did he make the thread asking if we wanted it in the first place?

Axe3. 3 amp blocks. makes sense. Metallica asked if it was possible. many users asked if it was possible. maybe the Beta Team asked for it at some point (*hint* i'm on the beta team).

with what i know:
Cliff wouldn't have asked us if he didn't want it or consider trying
if he asked us, it means he spent time on implementing it, which possibly means days spent on this one thing
if he says it is detrimental, i believe him

you're right that this is all speculation - which was exactly my point in that other thread. we're discussing/arguing (choose whatever word you want) about why we think he didn't like it. it's still pointless. yet the discussion continues, so *shrug*
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
why did he make the thread asking if we wanted it in the first place?

How in the world should I know? To me the poll was pointless because the outcome was obvious. What was in Cliff’s mind I can’t know. Maybe he was hoping there would be no demand and he’d finally bury the topic with another argument. He doesn’t create polls when he really makes up his mind to do something as far as I can tell - he just does it.

Maybe he tried it as you say (how hard?) Maybe he didn’t, and simply thought about it again and decided that he doesn’t want it no matter what, and he knows better, so screw those opinion polls. Maybe he had a heartburn on that day and just wrote what he wrote. Maybe he did try it and didn’t like it, but maybe he also found that it sounds like Axe-FX II, which a lot of people would be happy with, but he isn’t. Maybe he decided he’ll never ever do anything about it. And maybe it’s a maybe later. And maybe we should just stop guessing and read what he wrote - “I haven’t done it”. Not “I won’t do it”. Not “it’s not possible”.

I fully agree that discussing whether he did it or not and why and what other possible maybes can be is pointless, so let’s stop doing it. I’m not the one bringing up all the ideas about what happened. I only know what has actually been written and what I know and have experienced about oversampling and aliasing.
 

AlGrenadine

Axe-Master
Vendor
How in the world should I know? To me the poll was pointless because the outcome was obvious. What was in Cliff’s mind I can’t know. Maybe he was hoping there would be no demand and he’d finally bury the topic with another argument. He doesn’t create polls when he really makes up his mind to do something as far as I can tell - he just does it.

Maybe he tried it as you say (how hard?) Maybe he didn’t, and simply thought about it again and decided that he doesn’t want it no matter what, and he knows better, so screw those opinion polls. Maybe he had a heartburn on that day and just wrote what he wrote. Maybe he did try it and didn’t like it, but maybe he also found that it sounds like Axe-FX II, which a lot of people would be happy with, but he isn’t. Maybe he decided he’ll never ever do anything about it. And maybe it’s a maybe later. And maybe we should just stop guessing and read what he wrote - “I haven’t done it”. Not “I won’t do it”. Not “it’s not possible”.

I fully agree that discussing whether he did it or not and why and what other possible maybes can be is pointless, so let’s stop doing it. I’m not the one bringing up all the ideas about what happened. I only know what has actually been written and what I know and have experienced about oversampling and aliasing.
Discussing is not disgusting, no problem with this. It just proves this is a top-ranked expectation
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
Discussing is not disgusting, no problem with this. It just proves this is a top-ranked expectation

It's not disgusting, but I personally would prefer discussing things like can we get a switch that would toggle economy/high quality mode where users could explicitly opt to decrease oversampling to run more amp instances. For example.

And I certainly don't want yet another thread locked as this reduces the chance of getting real information about what's happening from the horse's mouth. The previous one was locked without anything bad happening, just because it appeared "pointless" to a mod, it seems. Locked threads certainly don't help anyone.
 

chris

Legend!
well to go back to something i believe you (and many others) said... why did he make the thread asking if we wanted it in the first place?
How in the world should I know? To me the poll was pointless because the outcome was obvious.
in the other thread you said this:

"This is what this thread is about, asking him to add it. I asked that earlier, too. He knows a lot of people know it, that's why he created the poll."

so that's why i said what i said in this thread. i'm not arguing at all, i'm just finding inconsistency here and there.

i know you want 3 amp blocks. i do too. al does too. many do too. maybe we'll get it.
 

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
in the other thread you said this:

"This is what this thread is about, asking him to add it. I asked that earlier, too. He knows a lot of people know it, that's why he created the poll."

so that's why i said what i said in this thread. i'm not arguing at all, i'm just finding inconsistency here and there.

i know you want 3 amp blocks. i do too. al does too. many do too. maybe we'll get it.

I was wrong the first time. Of course I don't know why he did it.
 
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