1959slp

G

guitarmike

Experienced
Ok, I have plenty of posts praising the axefx and I am truly a fan. No, that doesn't really get it. I am not a fan, I simply believe in the product on many fronts not the least of which is that it provides the very best solution for my guitaristic needs. I can even overcome the issue that I am about to bring up, so, in a sense, it is not an issue but more a curiosity. Most likely there is something inherent to the digital/modeling paradigm that I just don't understand....or something. Anyway, here goes...

I am a fan of non master volume Marshalls. In past years, I have worked on and played lots of them. For me, the non master marshalls in the axe are not quite there. I am referring specifically to the jumped amps (1959slp is my test subject so to speak) and to a specific aspect of the amps control. I think there is an interaction between the volume knobs on the tone of the amp that is kind of ....not there. If you take the non jumpered normal channel of the 1959slp, and compare it with the normal channel in the jumpered amp, with the settings identical and of course treble drive all the way down, wouldn't you expect them to be the same? The jumpered normal amp, set exactly the same is brighter and has less bottom end. I have not made scientific measurements, just listening by ear. Further, if either of the volume controls on the real amp is at zero, doesn't that put a 470pf cap straight to ground after the 470k mixing resisters, acting to further cut some high's. In other words, and in my hazy and admittedly suspect experience , there is a tone interaction that occurs between the volume knobs that the axe hasn't quite got...or have I had way touch much habanera sauce. Can someone set me straight on this?
 
Not much I can tell you beyond: don't expect the knobs to be exact. Most are within 10%, but if they aren't, who cares? Two traditional amps of the same model and make usually aren't.

Turn the knobs a little, find what you're looking for. I wouldn't lose sleep over it not matching in numbers. The sounds are there.
 
Well the pots and taper in 1959slp are likely different somewhat and as mentioned.
I sold mine but what I could remember about them they sounded best between 6 and 8 both
volumes and with channels jumped. I could never dime any of the plexi amps I owned they
would not sound good there but 6-8 range they did..
When I traded up for my first plexi a 68 #10287 I plugged straight into it and instantly knew
I liked it better then a 71 72 73 year amp.. I was instant and much warmer sounding less harsh..
If you have access to one perhaps compare ... I never ran mine with the treble on 0
Also I owned 6 different marshalls 3 Pa heads all 68 a super trem 67 traded up with Ej
for his which was super trem 300 serial #S off of mine. the 67 was jtm wiring Ej pointed that out
he needed a cleaner one for his clean tracks on Venus to match his lead amp I got the backup lead amp
which honestly sounded better for lead then my 67 did...I think back and am certain a few cap and resistor changes would have fixed that but I never messed with that.. I owned a 69 as well..
Sold them all sadly to survive and eat but of all those amps the best sounding one was a PA from 68
that I wired to super bass and disconnected the last 4 outputs so the amp had full power going to the first 4.
This made the amp like a SLP bass amp. That amp for some reason straight in could nail all the best tones
all the famous brits and Hendrix early Hendrix that is later of course he found the 67 Jtm super 100 #4026
the famous GOV amp which he played at Monterrey he slaved from that amp to the other two amps...
The other two marshals were nothing special but the 67 was....

The Gov amp #4026 was the magic amp it kept blowing up so they installed kt66 vs el 34 and changed some parts
cap wise in tone stack and that was what Hendrix freaked over..
He never let that amp or his #1 strat out of his sight he took it too the motel to write songs with on small tape recorder
as it sounded great at any volume.

My point to this is they all sound different never cared for any amp past 69 the 70 72 and 73
were harsh sounding never liked them personally.

I blew the 72 up was playing it really loud and struggling to get Hendrix sound and it went silent
turned around to see a small hiroshima type mushroom cloud come up out of the amp...
I had let the smoke out... :(
no sound so it was out put transformer ehhhhh so I replaced that the amp never sounded the same which was not all that great anyway so I traded up for the plexi.

Honestly once I found out what was in Jimis amp I made those corrections too the axe fx plexi
and was able to nail the Monterrey amp #4026 by doing what the techs did kt66 and the cap changes in tone stack...
the other part of the equation was speakers at that point...
Hendrix liked 0014 cones which were bass cab speakers. But you can indeed get the same results within the axe..

The only main difference is it will sound great at lower volumes and the real deal likes to see 6 or 8 volume wise
which rumbles the house its so loud..

Dont be shy of turning knobs or replacing the values and tubes within the axe fx..
Thats how I was able to find it...
 
Well like I said, I can get good/great sounds out of the amp by tweaking. What I find curious is that the jumpered bass channel doesn't sound the same as the amp sim that has just the bass input.

The jumpered amp sim on the bass side is brighter and doesn't extended as deep. Of course this can be tweaked. I always found the bright side to these amps just way too bright by themselves. Running on just the bright input, the treble and mids would be way down and bass full up. Running just the bass side is way to bassy; you would end up with treble, mid and presence way up, and the bass way down. Jumper the two channels and something really special happened. Of course tone is subjective and bassy to me is treble to you and such. Either channel is adjustable to get a great sound, but imho, the real magic happens when you jumper the channels.

In any event, the volume controls become an extension of the tone shaping of the amp. In fact, there is a 500pf cap parallel to the 470k mixing resister on the treble channel. If you take the treble channel volume to ground, ie, all the way down, you create a hi pass filter to ground. This would bleed off even more treble on the bass channel. This condition is true whether you have the channels jumped or not. I do not see this interaction in the 1959slp model.

My understanding is that the axe is modeled to a component level; I assume, and yes I know the danger inherent in assumptions, that this means literally each component is modeled by some mathematical formula. I suppose there could be instances where rc factors are model without a specific formula for each of these components. I simply don't know about these things and, honestly, its above my pay grade. Maybe this is proprietary - I could tell you but then I'd have to shoot you stuff-. However, it does seem that the goal here is to achieve perfection. Not good. Not even better than...so, in that spirit, I make my observation about this interaction between the treble and bass inputs.

For the record, I can take the 1959slp bass amp and make it sound excellent. I can make any amp in the axe fx sound great...in spite of my hamfisted technique. I am not complaining, simply trying give back to a really great community.
 
I agree about not diming a plexi. The sweet spot for mine was also in the 6-8 region. With 2 4x12 TV cabs, it would literally break windows in a small room. Outdoors or in a large venue, it was pure rock God lol

For the Fractal jumpered model, I'm not sure all the channel interaction is modeled, as you point out.

@Tex Axe , love the amp lore! I really dig reading about those specific amps you have come in contact with. Really cool stuff man.
 
barhrecords said:
I agree about not diming a plexi. The sweet spot for mine was also in the 6-8 region. With 2 4x12 TV cabs, it would literally break windows in a small room. Outdoors or in a large venue, it was pure rock God lol

For the Fractal jumpered model, I'm not sure all the channel interaction is modeled, as you point out.

@Tex Axe , love the amp lore! I really dig reading about those specific amps you have come in contact with. Really cool stuff man.
Click to expand...


Thank you barhrecords one thing I found is none of these amps taste very good.... tough to chew....

I agree on the jumper thing one thing I found odd was on some of those amps the PA for instance
I did not have to jump I could still get the low end out of the lead input no jump I cant explain that one..

Also no one ever told me about the tone stacks and how much difference they made when I did own them
I was taking my plexis to the same guys working on Ejs amps and saying make it sound like Erics amp
Guess what ?

They never sounded like Erics amps even Erics #2 lead amp was ok it did not bowl me over.
Oh the other thing was tube drivers...

I went through so many of those and then when I did trade Plexis with Ej he let me take the cliffs of dover tube driver
He thought the sound was going away on it.. Instantly when I plugged that one in there was the sound id been chasing along with his Plexi...


I knew he would open mine up so I put a small etching of alfred e neuman inside on a piece of paper
it said MAD Across the top with Alfreds face below and I wrote Alfred says no worries enjoy Eric !

I almost got to keep that pedal and a mutual friend of ours said DONT GIVE HIM THAT
Right in front of me...

I said THANKS ALOT VINCE laughing and handed the pedal back...
Eric said my tube driver was close but no cigar and he best not trade his for mine..

I told him Eric that pedal sounds exactly like Cliffs of Dover and you should never sell or trade it
straight too his face I said you are crazy if you think the sound is going away on that pedal I have never
came so close too that sound...

I then asked if he got my note inside and he smiled and said yea I saw that...

I still have the etching and note and you all can bet you're ass I looked inside his...
I then realized oh mine is not the same inside its got different caps...

So I sold mine right away after I found one like his... Sure enough it had that sound
of course no body can be Eric but Eric...

I still sound like me trying to sound like Eric but everything matters in that scenario
guitar pickups cable pedals amp cabinet speakers it all matters.

I still have that tube driver and I matched mine up too the one in the axe and used that
right up until I heard Andy Timmons angry charlie pedal someone mentioned dont buy that
because there is something already within the axe he said you already have one where I said
Rukus pedal is made by Suhr but its essentially the same thing...

When I tried that drive block the tube driver faded into history..
I must have bought 5 different ones till I did trade with Eric and I peeked
so I knew what the difference was..

All the ones I had before that were 2nd or 3rd generation tube drivers his was an early one.
It took awhile but I found one..


I never ever found the right fuzz pedal though never...
cant count how many fuzz faces ive stepped over to look for another one chasing THE perfect fuzz..

I still have not found one.

To get close I use a tube screamer ts9+ keely mod and a red fuzz face with no smile the solid black rubber matt type..
New dunlop Red style...

The combination of both pedals on at same time in the physical realm seems to get it but one without the other and its so so.
Usually right when I just get too the point of quitting ill find what im after...

You have to be relentless in the search for tone and ask alot of questions..

At soundcheck for Austin city limits the tech plugged in a monster cable into the front of the plexi
I was standing there staring and looked over and asked and the tech was laughing I asked whats the deal
with the monster cable plugged into the front of the amp..

He laughed and said I did that too see if you would ask about it..
its a joke he said..

Well ?
Ya gotta learn somehow....
I learn the very expensive hard way..

The best guitar sound investment I have ever made even over the Dumble and the clones
and the plexis ect is the axe fx II.

Hands down I wish I had this in the early 80s ..
 
Last edited:
Tex Axe,
I LOVE reading your posts! It would be awesome to see a "VH1 ish behind the scenes" done by you.
 
warlockII said:
Tex Axe,
I LOVE reading your posts! It would be awesome to see a "VH1 ish behind the scenes" done by you.
Click to expand...



Hmm well thanks im just bored an rambling but someone should benefit from the dreck floating around in my head..
I thought vh1 was dead along time ago its that still around ?

It could be titled "useless shit no body really gives a damn about or ramblings of an old bastard.."
I think David Lee Rothstiens Daddy owned MTV..

I met Dusty Hill and Billy Gibbons in Austin and had bought Dusty some double crowns at the private bar they had
and the bar closed and they said well hell our bar isnt closed come on up to the room..

Dusty was telling me some great stories and one of them was he called Billy up when MTV first came on the air
he said you gotta watch this concert its fantastic this was on Friday or so and sometime Saturday or Sunday
after that Billy calls Dusty and says " Man how long is this concert going to go on ? "

Rofl
the other one was the subject of party favors came up actually I said im sorry im empty handed I tried
to bring something but could not find anything...

Dusty said he had to quit cocaine I said why he said because he kept calling room service over and over and over again all weekend long and then on Monday he realized he was at home and had been calling the operator all weekend...
Said he had to quit...

Billy stuck his head around the door and came in with a girl id gone to high school with
he did sleight of hand Magic for us into the wee hours...

Those guys are very very funny and interesting to be around Ive been fortunate to have met most of my hero's...
Billy is a notorious prankster I had lunch with him in Houston once a buddy knew them real well and we had lunch once
and Billy was trying to talk me into refinishing his moderne...

I said no way that guitar is worth no telling how much money and Gibson should do it
He said if he sent that to Gibson he would never see it again I knew he was pulling my leg and
was not going to let some kid do that I was just starting out anyway the time...

I said well where is it lets see it and he said it was in a vault and could not just take me there due to insurance reasons
I said bag my head and put me in the trunk I wont tell and he said he could not do it..
Insurance would not allow...

Now I knew going in too the lunch that he was notorious so I did not believe he would let some stranger
refinish his rare guitar but it was alot of fun to shoot the shit with him...

Great person..
 
I haven't had cable tv for 10 years so I'm a little behind the times :) I guess I'm watching ancient episodes online once in a while. Keep the stories going!
 
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