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18Beta kick in the balls!

Manny Fufish

Veteran
Kind of came up in another thread but I think it deserves a mention on its own.

On the new G3 data modeling I'm so surprised people are not raving about the way the amps punch you in the chest now!!! Much more 'amp in the room' like in the way the sound hits you! I don't know if it's how fast it responds or what, but when you play the sound hits you hard and immediately, the way it does when you stand right in front of a speaker cabinet. Even when you're playing through FRFR CLRs like I am. That's been one of the most noticeable things about G3 to me. I really feel like I OWN all of these amps now, and it would be no different if I were playing through the real thing...
 

jakbur

Veteran
+1 And it goes for every aspect of the note and feel not to mention how every parameter is so pleasingly definite in it's effect on the sound/feel/punch.
 
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Karl Houseknecht

Forum Addict
On the new G3 data modeling I'm so surprised people are not raving about the way the amps punch you in the chest now!!! Much more 'amp in the room' like in the way the sound hits you!
I haven't experienced anything different in that department since FW13. I hear the new 18's improvements as very subtle, certainly not anything so obvious as punching me in the chest or being more "amp in the room". Maybe you were using a standard res factory cab before that's now ultra res?
 

Stratoblaster

Fractal Fanatic
Playing the G3 1987x Marshall thru CLR's feels so much like a real, snarly Marshall thru a 4x12 it's crazy; there is some magic in G3 that's for sure. It's something I can definitely feel vs pre-G3 firmwares.
 

shayne202

Regular
to me they are sounding a 'little' better. nothing to outrageously different but i am liking it more than 17.04
 

Manny Fufish

Veteran
Thanks a lot for the feedback guys! I'm the first to say that this COULD be in my head, though I think a few others have felt it too based on this feedback. I don't think it's just me though, it seems dramatic in how there is an immediacy to the response in a way that the sound hits you like a punch which seems way more 'amp like' in this build.

I'd love to hear FAS chime in and let us know if this is an intentional result of the new modeling techniques.

Thanks as always guys
 

DrHee

New here
Yeah, i'm getting kinda confused. Some say it's a massive difference, some say a small difference, some say they may have an update/download problem. I have tried both beta versions and i'm not 100% sure where i sit in this. If anything i'd say it's a darker sound but relatively subtle, with a darker high end being a good thing. However in another recent thread someone said it sounded darker and a response came back saying that could be an upload error as the responder wasn't hearing it as being darker??!! Maybe i'll wait for the final version so i can be more certain my upload is correct and i'm hearing all the goodness a lot of people are getting(?).
 

Karl Houseknecht

Forum Addict
I really think those that are hearing major differences had patches where now deprecated advanced amp parameters were tweaked away from the current static defaults. When the update process resets those parameters, you might hear a bigger difference than those that only tweak the simple amp controls. And if you're coming from a revision where the factory cab you were using was standard res and now it's ultra-res you'd feel more of a difference.

Not saying that the new firmware isn't good, it's great. But I'm skeptical when anyone says there's a major difference for the better. Granted, I heard and felt some of the things Cliff was talking about, mainly the note tail-off on sustained chords being different. But it's incredibly subtle. Not mind blowing or earth shatteringly different.
 

joecooll

Inspired
i use the axe fx mostly in the studio and i compared FW 18b with old ones that i record with
it's a massive difference
+1
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
i use the axe fx mostly in the studio and i compared FW 18b with old ones that i record with
it's a massive difference
+1
Back in the Ultra days, I changed my workflow to recreate my presets from scratch.

I use the "Hold Recall + power up" to blank the preset from the front panel. Then add AMP and CAB block from scratch.

For the rest of the grid I either use the Block library or just put in my Go To tweaks from scratch.

Using this approach, the switch to 18 was pretty dramatic for me.

Before I adopted this approach, I was hit / miss with getting same results as posted here on the forum. Since adopting this approach, my experience has been in line with "Wow" factor as seen here on the forum.
 

Manny Fufish

Veteran
I know exactly what you're saying, I keep laughing because one person will post that the differences are very subtle and the next person will report things are much better!

To answer Karl's questions, and thank you for your feedback Karl, I only work with ultrares IRs these days and mostly cab packs 6, 7 and 8 as well as some TAF and Ownhammers. I have one main preset I use for testing this kind of stuff and it only has a cab block, and a reverb block as I add a new amp block and start from scratch each time. I pick an amp that suits my mood, dial it in, and just play!

I think this beta had such an affect on me because I really like playing through an actual amp that's sitting next to me. It's the reason I have kept a few of my tube amps around the house. That immediate response, 'punch in the chest' if you will, is very important to me and I really feel it in this build...

Again, it could be me, but I'd love to hear from FAS if changes made could have impacted this responsiveness!
 

JRod4928

Veteran
Back in the Ultra days, I changed my workflow to recreate my presets from scratch.

I use the "Hold Recall + power up" to blank the preset from the front panel. Then add AMP and CAB block from scratch.

For the rest of the grid I either use the Block library or just put in my Go To tweaks from scratch.

Using this approach, the switch to 18 was pretty dramatic for me.

Before I adopted this approach, I was hit / miss with getting same results as posted here on the forum. Since adopting this approach, my experience has been in line with "Wow" factor as seen here on the forum.
Is hold recall + power up the same as clear preset on axe edit?
 

Manny Fufish

Veteran
Since adopting this approach, my experience has been in line with "Wow" factor as seen here on the forum.
Maybe this has something to do with it, see my last post, I start each session building up my blank template preset from scratch... The ones I really like I save to the hard disk for review later. Those eventually become my 'go to' presets, but every session begins from scratch as you said...
 

Eanna

Inspired
I really think those that are hearing major differences had patches where now deprecated advanced amp parameters were tweaked away from the current static defaults. When the update process resets those parameters, you might hear a bigger difference than those that only tweak the simple amp controls. And if you're coming from a revision where the factory cab you were using was standard res and now it's ultra-res you'd feel more of a difference.

Not saying that the new firmware isn't good, it's great. But I'm skeptical when anyone says there's a major difference for the better. Granted, I heard and felt some of the things Cliff was talking about, mainly the note tail-off on sustained chords being different. But it's incredibly subtle. Not mind blowing or earth shatteringly different.
I wonder if the degree of perceived difference between firmware upgrades is also directly related to the context in which they are being auditioned?
For example, I first tried FW18 through DT-100 cans & I can understand how some might not notice a huge difference - especially if playing in isolation.
Within the recording environment the difference was a bit more pronounced I believe, especially within the context of a mix. The response & feel improvements were probably proportionately more noticeable here too.
I felt the difference was most significant through a PA however. Quite a jump from 17.x I think. No idea about the difference for 'amp-in-the-room' 2x12" users, as I don't have that type of setup.
I know I'd have saved myself 10+ hours mucking about with 17.03 last week if I'd known how much better this was going to be 'out of the box'!
Looking forward the full release now :) Could FW18 be a tipping point for a raft of new live users?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I have three units here in my lab. One has 17.04 and the other two have 18.00. A/B'ing them it's immediately apparent and as Manny noted the most apparent thing is the punch in the chest aspect. That's exactly what I mentioned about a week or two that I noticed being the biggest difference. You can feel the speakers "jump" for lack of a better term.

One caveat, though, is that punch is dependent upon MV. The higher the MV the more punch but too high and things can get stuffy and/or raspy. You have to find the sweet spot and that depends on the other controls as well as your guitar and playing style.
 

bigbrown2056

Inspired
This has been the most pleasing update so far. It really does feel and sound better. I really like how the highs sound now. Much more realistic and musical than before. Thanks Cliff for your hard work, and for making such an awesome piece of equipment better and better!!!
 
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