16.05 Test

joegold said:
At any rate, it seems that in the EVH clips Cliff is posting here that there are two channel strips being simulated in the tone.
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even if that's the case, still a lot less color than what is usually introduced to a guitar signal in the studio. usually your signal would go: cab - mic - mic pre - channel strip (eq most likely) - comp - tape ( or nowadays a/d converters which can sound good or bad). each of these ads to the big picture. now make all those components some nice state of the art vintage analog gear and suddenly your cab/amp isn't the most important thing in the chain any longer...
 
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joegold said:
Not sure I grok why it is that the amplitude response of the mic and mic pre is not also captured during the IR capturing process though.
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Just re-read your post.
Think I get it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gist of it is that the nonlinear amplitude response of a mic pre can't be replicated via convolution techniques and that's why you've decided to model it instead.
Y/N?
 
joegold said:
Just re-read your post.
Think I get it now.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the gist of it is that the nonlinear amplitude response of a mic pre can't be replicated via convolution techniques and that's why you've decided to model it instead.
Y/N?
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Correct. Convolution is a linear process. It's just a very detailed filter. When you create an IR any distortion products are not captured. Some distortion AFTER the cabinet (IR) can be desirable. Indeed many producers deliberately overdrive various components in the recording chain for effect.
 
Clark Kent said:
Definitely. F.ex. driving vocals with preamps is extremely common. :)
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I do a lot of work for one of the big Dub producers. you should see his signal path. any VU meter on his outboard gear is hitting the red end so hard, you expect it to break the glass any second ;)
 
Goddammit Cliff!!! Now you have me starting practicing Mean Street... Shite!! this is way way difficult stuff. The solo part is actually way more "simple" than intro and rhythm...
 
FractalAudio said:
A popular technique during mixing is to add distortion to a track. This is commonly called an "exciter". Some exciters are multi-band. The added distortion makes the tone brighter and can help it stand out. Overdriving a preamp or tape is simply a crude type of exciter but that's all they had in those days. They experimented. They turned the knobs until things sounded good. This experimentation led to the realization that some distortion on the track made things sound better. Some guys liked overdriving the console input. Some guys like overdriving the strip output. Some guys liked overdriving the tape.
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I found this about how George Lynch / Michael Wegner got some of his most "famous" tones ....

George mentioned that he always gets a great tone with his Fostex 4track recorder when it's in total overdrive, so I asked him to bring it in. So after the 530 everything was sent to the Fostex 4track, which lived under a packing blanket under the console, so nobody would see it. The Fostex was on stunn, completely overdriven and was sent on to the 3M 32 track dig machine from there.
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FractalAudio said:
Here's a sample of with and without preamp modeling. The first half is amp->cab->reverb. The second half is amp->cab->pre->reverb.

www.fractalaudio.com/tmp/pre_test.mp3
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I think that's the element/missing ingredient I hear in VH recordings (and others) that I haven't been able to get in my own tone. And I'm not trying to emulate Eddie's tone, I'm talking about any overdriven tone. It's got that certain smoothed crunchiness and extra gain that I try to milk from a drive pedal but just can't seem to nail.

I always think of a tone that doesn't have "this" as being "dry" sounding (and just as important.... feeling). Not to be confused with "no effects". It needs some moisturizer.
 
VegaBaby said:
even if that's the case, still a lot less color than what is usually introduced to a guitar signal in the studio. usually your signal would go: cab - mic - mic pre - channel strip (eq most likely) - comp - tape ( or nowadays a/d converters which can sound good or bad). each of these ads to the big picture. now make all those components some nice state of the art vintage analog gear and suddenly your cab/amp isn't the most important thing in the chain any longer...
Click to expand...

I think the amp/cab IS the most important thing. It all starts with a great tone first. as the saying goes; sh*t in = sh*t out
 
Clive said:
Does a preamp mic simulation block use a lot of CPU ressources ?
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The simulation is part of the Cabinet block. I put it there for simplicity, otherwise you would have to make sure you panned fully L/R when using stereo cabs and the average user doesn't read the manual. So there is a stereo preamp model in the Cabinet block. It also includes "channel strip-style EQ" which is based on the classic Neve EQ.

There are two modes for the preamp modeling: Economy and High Quality. Economy mode uses less CPU, obviously. High Quality oversamples to avoid aliasing but this uses more CPU.
 
FractalAudio said:
The simulation is part of the Cabinet block. I put it there for simplicity, otherwise you would have to make sure you panned fully L/R when using stereo cabs and the average user doesn't read the manual. So there is a stereo preamp model in the Cabinet block. It also includes "channel strip-style EQ" which is based on the classic Neve EQ.
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Cool! So, if the Cab Block is mono the preamp/eq sim works also mono (cpu saving) and only when stereo blocks are used, the preamp/eq section will also be doubled to represent stereo image? Because ... a dedicated Block with Mono/Stereo switch i would personally prefer ...

FractalAudio said:
There are two modes for the preamp modeling: Economy and High Quality. Economy mode uses less CPU, obviously. High Quality oversamples to avoid aliasing but this uses more CPU.
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Hopefully, it just start eating CPU, when it`s activated in the cab-block?!
 
Man, that tone really does sound authentic.

Cliff, dude you are impressive. I wonder if people realize just how important and revolutionary your inventions and developments are. Music is one of the most significant developments in human history, and important recordings live basically forever. The world is still taken by Beethoven's music, and the world has been enamored with the VH1 guitar sound for what will soon be 40 years.

What is so amazing is not that you have recreated these sounds,( which IS amazing) but that you have developed a tool that will enable artists to make new ones, and that this machine will become part of music history in my opinion.
 
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