16.05 Test

Studio Channel Strips are what I really would like... some good emulation of Neve, Millennia preamps... they will have tons of applications.
Please Cliff, keep on that track!
 
Could anybody plz tell me if Cliff has put any drive block in front?
it has tons of gain and sustain and tight as hell..
What's the setting if there's any?
 
Isn't there a mic pre also baked into the IR you're using in the Cab Block?
Do you have some way to digitally remove audio signature of the IR's mic pre?

See posts 99 and 105, he addressed that.

Yes, he can remove the frequency response coloration for the mic pre. You capture the response of the mic pre and then apply the inverse of that to the IR. From his previous responses, it does not sound like he likes to do that though.
 
See posts 99 and 105, he addressed that.

Yes, he can remove the frequency response coloration for the mic pre. You capture the response of the mic pre and then apply the inverse of that to the IR. From his previous responses, it does not sound like he likes to do that though.

Actually he doesn't really address that.
Those comments of his are why I asked my questions.
I don't see where he talks about using an inverse IR of the API channel strip to remove its influence on the tone.

At any rate, it seems that in the EVH clips Cliff is posting here that there are two channel strips being simulated in the tone.
That's like using a mic sim on an IR that was captured with a mic like an SM57.
Nothing really wrong with doing that though if it gets the sound you're after.

The difference between the two tones in Cliff's last clip is quite striking.
The one with the new simulated mic pre sounds much more musical.
I'm just trying to better understand why/how.
 
Actually he doesn't really address that.
Those comments of his are why I asked my questions.
I don't see where he talks about using an inverse IR of the API channel strip to remove its influence on the tone.

At any rate, it seems that in the EVH clips Cliff is posting here that there are two channel strips being simulated in the tone.
That's like using a mic sim on an IR that was captured with a mic like an SM57.
Nothing really wrong with doing that though if it gets the sound you're after.

The difference between the two tones in Cliff's last clip is quite striking.
The one with the new simulated mic pre sounds much more musical.
I'm just trying to better understand why/how.

There are two nonlinear components to preamp coloration: nonlinear frequency response and nonlinear amplitude response. When you capture an IR you capture the nonlinear frequency response, if any. The nonlinear amplitude response (clipping) is not captured.

My quick preamp simulation is simulating the nonlinear amplitude response.

There's a huge difference between distortion before the speaker (IR) vs. distortion after the speaker. Eddie's studio tone was a combination of distortion before the speaker (from the amp) and distortion after the speaker (from the preamp or tape or whatever). The new preamp simulation is adding distortion after the speaker which increases brilliance and "cut".

A popular technique during mixing is to add distortion to a track. This is commonly called an "exciter". Some exciters are multi-band. The added distortion makes the tone brighter and can help it stand out. Overdriving a preamp or tape is simply a crude type of exciter but that's all they had in those days. They experimented. They turned the knobs until things sounded good. This experimentation led to the realization that some distortion on the track made things sound better. Some guys liked overdriving the console input. Some guys like overdriving the strip output. Some guys liked overdriving the tape.

The microphone itself can distort as well. Especially at high volumes.
 
There are two nonlinear components to preamp coloration: nonlinear frequency response and nonlinear amplitude response. When you capture an IR you capture the nonlinear frequency response, if any. The nonlinear amplitude response (clipping) is not captured.

My quick preamp simulation is simulating the nonlinear amplitude response.

There's a huge difference between distortion before the speaker (IR) vs. distortion after the speaker. Eddie's studio tone was a combination of distortion before the speaker (from the amp) and distortion after the speaker (from the preamp or tape or whatever). The new preamp simulation is adding distortion after the speaker which increases brilliance and "cut".

A popular technique during mixing is to add distortion to a track. This is commonly called an "exciter". Some exciters are multi-band. The added distortion makes the tone brighter and can help it stand out. Overdriving a preamp or tape is simply a crude type of exciter but that's all they had in those days. They experimented. They turned the knobs until things sounded good. This experimentation led to the realization that some distortion on the track made things sound better. Some guys liked overdriving the console input. Some guys like overdriving the strip output. Some guys liked overdriving the tape.

The microphone itself can distort as well. Especially at high volumes.

Thanks for that Cliff.
Not sure I grok why it is that the amplitude response of the mic and mic pre is not also captured during the IR capturing process though.
E.g. It seems to me that an IR *is* after the speaker because it's captured with a mic as well as a mic pre on the speaker. No?
I'll have to think about this a bit more.

Whatever's going on, the new mic pre sim sounds quite good.
Thanks again.
 
The new preamp simulation is adding distortion after the speaker which increases brilliance and "cut".

... sure, that #1 is with mic pre sim and #2 w/o? With this description i had bet, #1 is with mic pre sim ... :mrgreen Anyhow ... if it sounds good, it sounds good ... and good is very subjective thingy ...
 
Great job Danny. I can see what you're talking about with the harmonics Your sound sounds a bit thicker with a bit more saturation, but it's quite close. EVH tone didn't have as much sustain although it sounds like it does. You can tell by listening really closed and from listening to the old live stuff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! Yeah the extra sustain comes from me tuning like a weirdo. My strings are so loose (down to C yet I play in 440) I have to pump up the gain a little more to compensate. If I don't, things die out rather quickly.

Yeah, see lots of guys are super close with their cops of Ed...some dead on, but just about none of them get that pinch harmonic sound he gets. It's not a chirp, it's a scream that hits you in the throat. I can't explain it but I can duplicate it. Thank God I got my Axe to do it. I cried about this at first but I sorted it out. LOL! This is one thing tube amps get that people with PODS or even some of the modeling I hear on here just never seem to get. I believe Cliff refers to it as a "starved plate" sound. The 2101 in Saturated Tube mode gets it. It's one of the only sounds it does well.

That said, I'm honestly not meaning to sound like I'm bashing on anyone or the tones they have attempted to cop. I'll be the first to admit I'm not even close, but then again....I never tried to be dead on. As much as I like Ed's tone, there are things about it that I do NOT like. Sometimes it's too abrasive and high endy, (first album) other times it's too warm and loaded with mids. Especially live. I've never heard him come close to any of his studio sounds. You can tell it's him playing, but 9 times out of 10 he has this mid sound that to me doesn't quite have the life his studio sound has. He's claimed this is due to wireless.

So in my case, I've always tried for that "in between". You know, some elements of the studio, some of the live and then just tweak to taste removing the things I don't like so much. That's one thing I noticed about tone matching Unchained....I can nail the tone about 90% right from the tone match....but I HATE the tone. It's scratchy and sort of trebly and even worse through my cab. It's like....why keep a sound "for the sake of" if it makes you cringe? LOL! The sound I have here is probably 75% close yet I like the sound when I hear it and play it.

Danny, that sounds amazing! Any way we could get a hold of that bad boy TM/Patch?

Thanks Johnny, and yeah I don't mind sharing the sound. I actually have a load of sounds I'd like to share. I'm just trying to get them all set up right. For example, I posted on the forum the other day that I have a clicking noise that came along after updating to the latest firmware patch. I have two presets that use the same configuration. One clicks, the other does not. It's weird. Long story short, a lot of my patches use dual effects where they don't need to be like that. I've recently incorporated X/Y into my presets so that allows me to get the cpu lower as well as things looking a heck of a lot nicer in the preset. LOL! So I'm redoing all my patches to get rid of the extra stuff at the moment so no one experiences any clutter or clicks/pops. For example, the VH sounds have 2 compressors (Cliff, any chance of having compressors with X/Y capability?) two drive pedals, two verbs, two flangers, two delays....it's a mess bro. So once I clean them up, I'll definitely share with everyone.

I do have a question....is a Tone Match block included in a preset when you export it? I would assume it is but I'm not sure. You may need to teach me there brother. :) As much as I'm into the whole Axe Fx thing, I'm still learning about it. I can get really decent tones, I just need to know how to maximize the potential as well as how to upload the right stuff. Anyway, some of my presets rely on cab impulses that I created. The cool thing about that as opposed to my tone match is....you can give it that "cab room" sound in cab options for recording in your studio. I've not been able to repro the same results using tone matching even with reverb. It's just not the same "space" occupying sound....if that makes sense? So I'd probably have to upload one with the custom cab, and then the other with the tone match. I'll figure all that out though. :)

Brilliant method!

Thanks! I come from an old tape background....so I'm familiar with the sound of hot tape signal. I think Cliff has a great idea going on with this....but it may be even closer with a tape sim effect as that too helped to carve the VH tone. Any of you having UAD plugins should try that Studer on your tones if you want a bit of that classic thing going on. Unfortunately none of the presets were useful in creating the Ed saturation, but with a little work you can come darned close. The cool thing about that plug (which I bet Cliff could design without breathing) is, it doesn't have that digital distortion sound that everyone else that makes tape sim plugs has. I really believe the dudes creating some of these plugs are young kids with degrees that have no idea how saturated tape is supposed to sound. We never heard digital clicks and pops when we ran hot into a 16 track one inch or 24 track 2 inch machine. That said, the Studer plug nails this and gives you some nice bias controls to hone it in even better. (Cliff if you ever need me for anything to help out...let me know. I live this stuff brother!)

Just listened to Danny's Unchained through a good set of headphones, and that sounded amazing.

Thanks. :) Like I say, I know it's far from spot on, but it's workable. I'd probably still dial a little treble out of it to be honest.....but then the tone starts to really not sound as close.

Glad you guys enjoyed it. Thanks again. Will definitely share some patches soon for those interested and I hope Cliff continues to build on this stuff. What a great time to be alive for guitar tones and having a Fractal....we're so blessed, we truly are. :)
 
I do have a question....is a Tone Match block included in a preset when you export it?

Yes, the matched frequency response is included when exporting. If you want to be triple sure, that matches will work also in a future, where cliff probobly will do some changes on the TMA block .... export the match as Cab-IR... ;)
 
Actually he doesn't really address that.
Those comments of his are why I asked my questions.
I don't see where he talks about using an inverse IR of the API channel strip to remove its influence on the tone.

At any rate, it seems that in the EVH clips Cliff is posting here that there are two channel strips being simulated in the tone.
That's like using a mic sim on an IR that was captured with a mic like an SM57.
Nothing really wrong with doing that though if it gets the sound you're after.

The difference between the two tones in Cliff's last clip is quite striking.
The one with the new simulated mic pre sounds much more musical.
I'm just trying to better understand why/how.

He he spoke about the inverse IR in other threads.
 
There are two nonlinear components to preamp coloration: nonlinear frequency response and nonlinear amplitude response. When you capture an IR you capture the nonlinear frequency response, if any. The nonlinear amplitude response (clipping) is not captured.

My quick preamp simulation is simulating the nonlinear amplitude response.

There's a huge difference between distortion before the speaker (IR) vs. distortion after the speaker. Eddie's studio tone was a combination of distortion before the speaker (from the amp) and distortion after the speaker (from the preamp or tape or whatever). The new preamp simulation is adding distortion after the speaker which increases brilliance and "cut".

A popular technique during mixing is to add distortion to a track. This is commonly called an "exciter". Some exciters are multi-band. The added distortion makes the tone brighter and can help it stand out. Overdriving a preamp or tape is simply a crude type of exciter but that's all they had in those days. They experimented. They turned the knobs until things sounded good. This experimentation led to the realization that some distortion on the track made things sound better. Some guys liked overdriving the console input. Some guys like overdriving the strip output. Some guys liked overdriving the tape.

The microphone itself can distort as well. Especially at high volumes.

Isn't the frequency response linear in an IR?
 
Yes, the matched frequency response is included when exporting. If you want to be triple sure, that matches will work also in a future, where cliff probobly will do some changes on the TMA block .... export the match as Cab-IR... ;)

Thank you! Yeah, that's what my cab impulses thing meant. I tone matched and then saved them as CAB IR's. Glad I did something right! Thanks again! :)
 
Thank you! Yeah, that's what my cab impulses thing meant. I tone matched and then saved them as CAB IR's. Glad I did something right! Thanks again! :)

But you did not meant shooting Cab IRs from real cabs that way, right? For that, IR capture tool is there.
 
There are two nonlinear components to preamp coloration: nonlinear frequency response and nonlinear amplitude response. When you capture an IR you capture the nonlinear frequency response, if any. The nonlinear amplitude response (clipping) is not captured.

My quick preamp simulation is simulating the nonlinear amplitude response.

There's a huge difference between distortion before the speaker (IR) vs. distortion after the speaker. Eddie's studio tone was a combination of distortion before the speaker (from the amp) and distortion after the speaker (from the preamp or tape or whatever). The new preamp simulation is adding distortion after the speaker which increases brilliance and "cut".

A popular technique during mixing is to add distortion to a track. This is commonly called an "exciter". Some exciters are multi-band. The added distortion makes the tone brighter and can help it stand out. Overdriving a preamp or tape is simply a crude type of exciter but that's all they had in those days. They experimented. They turned the knobs until things sounded good. This experimentation led to the realization that some distortion on the track made things sound better. Some guys liked overdriving the console input. Some guys like overdriving the strip output. Some guys liked overdriving the tape.

The microphone itself can distort as well. Especially at high volumes.

Excellent explanation! I love these kinds of discussions. :)
 
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