1500 bucks, you say, Line6?

This is a common misconception. The Kemper does not use "3-dimensional" IRs (whatever that is). The file size if far too small to support that. It uses standard IRs and quite short ones at that. IIRC they are only 256 samples. The Kemper has seven (last I checked) base amp models. It finds the model that is closest to the measured response. It then does an EQ and gain match for that model. It also finds the input EQ. The heart of the Kemper is gain and EQ matching. You'd be surprised how far that goes in recreating an amp.

This is the kind of "revelations" I love but are they real revelations ? I've already heard about this theory of base amp models in the KPA : it explains why some people often feel the same when playing with their KPA but I've heard it was more than seven base amp models.
Does the Axe FX II loaded with G3 rely on certain base amp models too ?

About this theory of gain matching, this very interesting, can you tell us more about this please ?
 
This is the kind of "revelations" I love but are they real revelations ? I've already heard about this theory of base amp models in the KPA : it explains why some people often feel the same when playing with their KPA but I've heard it was more than seven base amp models.
Does the Axe FX II loaded with G3 rely on certain base amp models too ?

About this theory of gain matching, this very interesting, can you tell us more about this please ?

Last I checked it was seven base models. There may be more now. Seven would be more than enough IMO. Most amps derive from a handful of base designs: Fender, Vox, Marshall.

The Axe-Fx II does not rely on base models. Each model is unique.

Gain matching is fairly simple but I don't want to disclose how it is done as it is part of a patent I have pending.

The main point was the misconception that the kemper uses dynamic convolution or some kind of different IR technology. It does not (the file size is much too small to support that). In fact you can open a .kipr file and see the IR data in there. It's encrypted but it's clearly there. IIRC there are two 256 sample IRs. My guess is that one is the input EQ and the other is the output EQ. As these short IRs lack sufficient low-frequency resolution I would also guess that low-frequency resolution enhancement is being done using IIR filters although other techniques are possible. IR technology is great though. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't understand how powerful it is.
 
I'm sorry but Line 6 has got enough of my money in the past and just left me disappointed!

I used rackmount Digitech gear in the 80's (2101, 2112, 2120) and they were all great gear and then the "Modeling" revolution came along and promised you a gazillion amps in one box and I had to try it.

I bought pods, flextone II amp, digitech rp's and still to this day own a HD 500 and in my opinion the tone in all of them is ok for playing in your bedroom or on a computer but when jamming with other people they just fall short and frankly, they sound like "processed cheese" to me and don't sound good... (this is just my opinion of course and you are entitled to a different one than me)

I end up buying a tube amp head to take the place of my aging Digitech rack gear and it worked great but was limited to only a couple of sounds.

Then I heard of the Axe Fx and had to try one and to make a long story short my tube head is now sitting in the corner unplayed.. The axe not only sounded good it sounded GREAT and the front panel user interface was easy to understand and navigate that's the only things I really care about because at the end of the day that's the only things that matter.

I'm not an Axe Fx or Cliff Chase fanboi I'm just a guitar player that wants something that sounds good and is fairly easy to use and the Axe has solved that for me. Is it expensive?... Yes, but It does everything that it claims to do very well.

As far as I'm concerned I don't care about all the Helix fancy interface and footswitches because line 6 has never delivered on the only thing that matters to me... SOUND! I don't care if it has lips on it if it sounds like ass I don't want it. I use my HD 500 as a foot controller for my Axe because after spending MONTHS trying to coax a good sound for live with it I just couldn't get anything that sounded decent.

When I purchased my first Axe Fx Ultra I had a decent sound in minutes and we jammed using it that afternoon... That's the bottom line!

I'm sorry but line 6 will never get another dime of my money......
 
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Got to agree - I will never buy another Line 6 product in my life. I spent a ridiculous amount of money over the years with Line 6 'chasing the tone' and the products always fell short in one way or another. Line 6 always felt like a business model with products attached rather than the other way round. The Strymon off-shoot gets the balance right IMO - expensive, high-margin products justified by quality and functionality.
Of course Fractal are in different league when it comes to value for money and 'product first' thinking.
 
I keep coming back to the Helix and wondering if it's going to be my next rig. The speed and ease of editing appears to be just fantastic. Assign multiple items (effects as well as paramters) to a single footswitch and customize the text in the scribble scrip? That's just a whole new way of working. After seeing the "Helix at the office" video, and getting the impression that they've put the proper efforts into modeling the various amp stages, and given the current state of the technology, I will be quite surprised if the Helix doesn't sound great. Given the higher-end market they're targeting I can't see it being a sub-par unit. I'm really interested to see some real-world reviews after these things are in the hands of users for a few months. I've always been somewhat biased against Line 6 products as being mid-grade gear, but I'm withholding judgement on this one because so far it's looking like a real contender.
 
Assign multiple items (effects as well as paramters) to a single footswitch and customize the text in the scribble scrip? That's just a whole new way of working.
Customizable scribble strips is a new way of working (relatively new, anyway). Assigning multiple effects and parameters to a single footswitch has been available on the Axe-Fx (and even on my 20-year-old Roland GP-100) for as long as the Axe-Fx has been around.
 
This is a common misconception. The Kemper does not use "3-dimensional" IRs (whatever that is). The file size if far too small to support that. It uses standard IRs and quite short ones at that. IIRC they are only 256 samples. The Kemper has seven (last I checked) base amp models. It finds the model that is closest to the measured response. It then does an EQ and gain match for that model. It also finds the input EQ. The heart of the Kemper is gain and EQ matching. You'd be surprised how far that goes in recreating an amp.
Interesting. Which kind of throws the question why nobody managed to compete with Kemper in terms of sound on the IR-based modelling approach. This approach seems simple enough for lower end modellers to copy, after all. Is it only the processing power needed?
 
Assigning multiple effects and parameters to a single footswitch has been available on the Axe-Fx (and even on my 20-year-old Roland GP-100) for as long as the Axe-Fx has been around.

Yes, ever since MIDI foot controllers were invented in the 80s to drive those large racks with multiple devices.
 
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Yes, ever since MIDI foot controllers were invented in the 80s to drive those large racks with multiple devices.

yes but not with the ease they assign things to the buttons, buttons being touch sensitive...ie: touch a button to edit the effect or to assign the effect to the button... looks awesome.
 
Of course. Usability has increased.

Ya have to admit having mastermind GT type funcionality on a 1509 all in one floorboard is pretty darn cool. Not sure I get complaints about price being high.

It will come down to how it sounds of course.


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From what was advertized on the Helix, L6 actually goes the Axe FX approach here, modelling the components instead of treating the amp like a blackbox.
Now this is obvious, you can simulate the behaviour of transistors, power tubes, etc. ... the question is: how much detail will they apply. You can model everything and still half-ass it by having every component just an approximation that comes close but is not quite there. Knowing L6, they will probably cut corners here...

According to the people who built the Helix over the last 4-5 years, they got extremely detailed. So many are speculating (purely speculating) that Line 6 will "half-ass" this which I don't think is unreasonable based on the company's prior efforts. However, there is some evidence that they didn't half-ass this one. We'll find out soon enough

I'm new to Fractal with my FX8, but the user interface on the machine could be a LOT better. Even things that made the L6 M series pedals so easy to use. Clearly L6 did not half-ass the user interface on the Helix. But ultimately what will make it or break it for me is the sound and the feel. I'm looking forward to trying it for myself.
 
I have several reasons why I'm VERY skeptical about the Helix:

1) I have never played a Line 6 product that satisfied me.
2) The sound clips don't represent the feel of the models. And there have been only a small handful of clips. For all we know, the Helix can achieve only a few usable sounds.
3) Based on the cost of $1500, people are assuming the Helix is geared more to professional and semi-professional players. But what are you paying for? The fancy screen? The nifty digital labels for each footswitch? Those digital footswitch labels are VERY expensive (as evidenced by the RJM Mastermind GT controller series, which are very pricey foot controllers). It seems to me that you're paying a ton of cash for some fancy screens and footswitches, which doesn't leave much money left for decent processing and software development, which translates to sub par tone.

I see no reason to jump ship from the AxeFx to the Helix. Historically, FAS has always worked to improve their products for free. The same cannot be said for Line 6. And nothing Line 6 has ever put out has ever even REMOTELY compared to the AxeFx II. Hell, even the AxeFx Ultra and Standard are far superior to any Line 6 product.
 
I have several reasons why I'm VERY skeptical about the Helix:

1) I have never played a Line 6 product that satisfied me.
2) The sound clips don't represent the feel of the models. And there have been only a small handful of clips. For all we know, the Helix can achieve only a few usable sounds.
3) Based on the cost of $1500, people are assuming the Helix is geared more to professional and semi-professional players. But what are you paying for? The fancy screen? The nifty digital labels for each footswitch? Those digital footswitch labels are VERY expensive (as evidenced by the RJM Mastermind GT controller series, which are very pricey foot controllers). It seems to me that you're paying a ton of cash for some fancy screens and footswitches, which doesn't leave much money left for decent processing and software development, which translates to sub par tone.

I see no reason to jump ship from the AxeFx to the Helix. Historically, FAS has always worked to improve their products for free. The same cannot be said for Line 6. And nothing Line 6 has ever put out has ever even REMOTELY compared to the AxeFx II. Hell, even the AxeFx Ultra and Standard are far superior to any Line 6 product.

1. I have
2. The sounds really sound great. Not one video from a Axe FX product represents the feel either, and since most Axe FX videos represent metal tones you can say exactly the same about it.
3. Well, unless you have direct contact and discount prices from the manufaturers that provide all the component and you have insight info about just how much money they have spent in development, you sub par tone theory does not hold up.
 
ive been rooting for line6 on this thing just because i've got a lot of miles from a few of their products, and guitarists in general would benefit from a good modeler in that price range. The thing looks slick as a fish and many of the demos sound quite good.

There's a couple of hi gain amp demos out there and while I would certainly reserve judgement.. when I heard them there was sort of a familiar sound to them.. some of it may be because the clips just aren't the most jaw dropping composition or mix.. but I definitely felt a bit of "uhh ohh.. that sounds an awful lot like my old tone" which isn't bad.. but its still the reason I bought an axefx2
 
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