1500 bucks, you say, Line6?

This Helix thing could be pretty darn good.......we already know it looks killer & has basically every routing option you can think of. Plus IR loading, 8x8 audio, very intuitive user interface with a huge screen etc.....

If the other amp models are up to the standard of the model that he plays at the end of the 2nd vid, then they have a winner on their hands for sure.

I want Line6 to do very well with the Helix, because then they will continue with this higher end direction. That can only be a good thing for us all.
 
had my share of line6 stuff, from the 4-series stompers to the pod hd, before my fractal days, that is.
although i have no reason to look at another modeler/multi-fx processor, the latest helix at the office video did very well to stir up my interest.
very nicely done and not over-the-top with the effects...
 
I came from a POD X3/Live / M13 combination and POD HD500 to the Axe FX II / XL (as the Axe was always my "must have" device). For me Line 6 was always a "good sound for fair price", but knowing that I was not on the upper end of tone. I didnt like the delays of Line 6, especially of the POD HD, as they sounded too washed out and muddy for me. But overall nice stuff, again, for the price.

I will stick with the Axe FX II/XL of course now as I am really really happy with it from all its possibilities and tone, but I am really suprised that Line 6, as it seems right now, really hits the right spot with the Helix series for their market segment. OK/good sound (from what I've seen), great design and nice interface. For a price range that is higher than their line currently, but still on a level where people are willing to buy it. Well done. And quite some stuff where I think Fractal Audio really should have looked at too besides their tone! I think thats fair to say, especially as they say themselfs that they focus at different topics (tone 1st, which is the right focus I agree).

But there is one thing I think FA should consider revisit their strategy: The midi footcontroller. Which is all about quality and robustness, but also even important about being a UI and interface between the guitarist and his sound device.
And now look at the separately available Helix Foot Controller. Nice simple design, displays per knob (yeah), different colors available per knob. Compare that with the more expensive MFC101, and tell me anything that might be a pro argument on the MFC side (besides robustness, which we dont know anything from the helix foot controller yet)? From my (!) opinion, MFC-101 is miles behind here :-( That much that I lost any interest in buying the MFC 101 now (and I still need a foot controller for my Axe FX II/XL). Sorry, no rant, but thats how it is. Might be that for the one type of guitarists the MFC is suffcient, when putting stickerlabels on it and using the same layout over and over again for all songs. But there are many other folks who create complex different presets, where the support of invidual displays or colors is really a strong argument for a device, supporting to control my sound better in a live situation and have transparency over my current presets and scenes.

For the MFC, the argument "we focus on tone" does not work, from my opinion it is a "we needed to create a simple floorboard as we need to have people anything on their floor to control their Axe FX". I hope FA would consider the increasing amount of new controllers with display support to rethink their strategy and create a new of their MFC-101 with more features. I'll avoid buying the current MFC, but they have my money guaranteed if there would be a MFC version with some of the features of e.g. the Helix (combined with the robustness of the current MFC). Dont get me wrong, I dig FA and the AxeFX, but I would really hope for an updated midi interface where they are getting behind (my 2 cents). Come one, we have 21st century.
 
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Great product, killer demo player, monster interface and it sounds good!
bye bye Fractal Audio... just sayin`
 
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BTW..... From Line6 Product Manager....

Hybrid cabs start out as oversampled 2048-point IRs, but are optimized to utilize way less DSP without losing definition. You can pick one of 16 mic models (or in the case of dual cabs, two of 16 mic models), change the mic distance from 1" to 12" in half-inch increments, apply early reflections, and filter them with low and high-cut filters. That's pretty much it.

This sounds like the same concept behind UltraRes but with mic placement options, sounds pretty cool to me!
 
to be honest, i think FAS has shared so much secret information over the years on this forum. just little tidbits here and then, but then it's compiled and all put together on the wiki. maybe on its own, and even grouped together, it's nothing revealing. but it might make someone starting thinking differently about the entire approach, which leads to epiphanies of their own.

people always ask for info revealing how the axe sounds so good, and though that is probably a common question from all of us, maybe none of it has to be answered at all.

as much "respect" that the line 6/yamaha team says they have for what Cliff has done over the years, they will "respect" it all the way to the bank if they learn any private information and use it in their products. that goes for anyone of course.

the recent rule for Product Affiliation in signatures is a step in the right direction. glad there are patents on things as well.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
to be honest, i think FAS has shared so much secret information over the years on this forum. just little tidbits here and then, but then it's compiled and all put together on the wiki. maybe on its own, and even grouped together, it's nothing revealing. but it might make someone starting thinking differently about the entire approach, which leads to epiphanies of their own.

people always ask for info revealing how the axe sounds so good, and though that is probably a common question from all of us, maybe none of it has to be answered at all.

as much "respect" that the line 6/yamaha team says they have for what Cliff has done over the years, they will "respect" it all the way to the bank if they learn any private information and use it in their products. that goes for anyone of course.

the recent rule for Product Affiliation in signatures is a step in the right direction. glad there are patents on things as well.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Cliff answers any question regarding the Axe FX magic with caution. The Helix is the answer toa lot of user requests, so far it sounds fantastic, looks fantastic, has an HD color LCD and an amazing user friendly interface, to me they have a killer formula for a product that will lead the future of Line 6.

The only ones that benefit from competition is us!
 
Rex said:
The Axe already gives you mic placement options (Proximity). :)
Click to expand...

+1

And early reflections, and lo/hi cut, and mic models (although 'baked in' mics are favored these days), and dual cabs, and more. Hmm ...
 
Honestly...

I'm still not impressed by what I'm hearing.

Props to them for making their vid funny tho.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
I honestly don't think there is much of a secret in how the Axe FX 2 works internally, as the difference basicly stems from a completely different approach to modelling:

Kemper/Pod/other: Modelling based on impulse responses; in the case of the Kemper, the IRs are actually shot over a dynamic range (which is why the testing signal creates this weird wobble sound), so they are pretty much 3-dimensional IRs. Components of the amps are mostly neglected; instead, you just replicate what comes out of it.

Axe FX: All components of the amp circuits are modelled. What comes out of it is a result of the circuit model and it's interactions not the result of an IR.
Basicly, it works like a PLC control.


From what was advertized on the Helix, L6 actually goes the Axe FX approach here, modelling the components instead of treating the amp like a blackbox.
Now this is obvious, you can simulate the behaviour of transistors, power tubes, etc. ... the question is: how much detail will they apply. You can model everything and still half-ass it by having every component just an approximation that comes close but is not quite there. Knowing L6, they will probably cut corners here...



Btw, the is a third approach to amp modelling which has not been tried yet: using neural networks.

Basicly, you feed the neural network with known input signals (guitar sound) and a known output signal (recorded amp for the guitar input). Then you define nodes (say, transistors and capacitors of a preamp section, poweramp section components, etc) and let the network "learn" by feeding it more and more reference signals.

It's basicly a hybrid of the IR and circuit modelling approach. Just without having to dismantle and analyze amps. Also, "neural network" is always a nice buzz word for marketing.
 
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To me the "Tone and definitely feel" question has not been answered...........I do not count line 6 employees boasts, what else would they say, any company actually about there own product......

For me, It will be by guitar players...hopefully some of the better players on this forum.....not line 6 employees.

I only care, because I agree with willowdale.........better guitar products benefit us all..........good competition breeds price and R&D.
 
Zwiebelchen said:
I honestly don't think there is much of a secret in how the Axe FX 2 works internally, as the difference basicly stems from a completely different approach to modelling:

Kemper/Pod/other: Modelling based on impulse responses; in the case of the Kemper, the IRs are actually shot over a dynamic range (which is why the testing signal creates this weird wobble sound), so they are pretty much 3-dimensional IRs.
Click to expand...

This is a common misconception. The Kemper does not use "3-dimensional" IRs (whatever that is). The file size if far too small to support that. It uses standard IRs and quite short ones at that. IIRC they are only 256 samples. The Kemper has seven (last I checked) base amp models. It finds the model that is closest to the measured response. It then does an EQ and gain match for that model. It also finds the input EQ. The heart of the Kemper is gain and EQ matching. You'd be surprised how far that goes in recreating an amp.
 
none of this is alien tech. your iphone can do a pretty good job of it

from what I hear the helix is going to be a good product . havent loved every tone in every vid but I don't love every tone I hear with the axe fx either

hell the helix may have some innovations that fractal and kemeper tweak and adopt . competition is good for all of us
 
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